Travel meditation to the "Towers of Light & Dark" with experiences; Using the "World" path energy; Understanding the Towers of Light and Dark; using the Tarot Paths; upcoming Tree of Life CD; divination and using the Tarot; the herbal tarot; herbs Echinacea, rosemary, and lavender
November 13, 2008 (workshop log file)

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Session Start: Thu Nov 13 14:24:29 2008
Session Ident: #energyworks
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<iris> Hi everyone!
<aina> hello :)
<seandi> hi there
<iris> Glad you could be here
<iris> The site had some problems last week so the meditation workshop was postponed until today
<iris> Are either of you interested in meditating?
<iris> do you have other questions or items for discussion?
<aina> oh i was just reading some Mayan stuff
<aina> bout the 6th Day of Galactic cycle, that started
<iris> yes, the mayan calendar was designed in cycles
<iris> it's rather complicated to understand how they figured it out
<iris> and I think today is the day it moves into that cycle
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<iris> Hi electra!
<electra> hi Iris
<electra> for a moment there I thought you were all meditating
<electra> i completely forgot it was Thursday
<iris> no, not yet - we're just quiet today :-)
<electra> it's been such a busy day
<electra> interesting you are still on Malkuth as I've been having a lot of vibration with the World path
<electra> you know the one between Malkuth and Yesod
<electra> I've always wondered about that card
<electra> it has that alluring thing about it a bit like the Fool but different
<electra> very spacey and bright
<electra> apparently the cabalistic intelligence for that one is administrative
<electra> and I've been working very hard today on administrative things
<electra> that energy tends to keep you very focused on what you're doing
<electra> but in such a way that it doesn't drain your energy
<electra> it helps you keep in control all the time
<iris> that's funny - it's how I felt all day
<electra> interesting how that very high level bright energy connects a sephira like malkuth which is very earthy and one like yesod which is very ethereal
<electra> but the energy is very exciting
<electra> so it makes mundane things a lot more bearable and you don't get any mundane drag like you do if you are more earthbound
<electra> the World card (Universe/World Card from the Tarot and from the Tree of Life paths techpage) is supposed to be the end of the fools cycle of activity before he begins again
<iris> and aren't new beginnings always exciting?
<electra> so that frame of laurel that surrounds the world signifies the cycle of endless beginnings
<electra> definitely, provided you finished what you were doing
<electra> and there is no drag from the past
<electra> so how do you see the World card relating to Malkuth because for me that is a bit of a mystery
<electra> actually it makes more sense going down from Yesod to Malkuth but we are going up the Tree and not down at the moment
<iris> the World card is about completion
<electra> ah yes - great word that
<iris> don't we have to reach a certain level of "completion" to move on from Malkuth and learn the lessons from the rest of the Tree?
<iris> we must be at a certain level to even experience the rest of the Tree
<electra> so actually that concept would work in relating that card to Malkuth - I can see a relationship there
<electra> yes we do
<electra> yes -that is really true when I think about it
<electra> Malkuth is almost a whole tree of life in itself if you think about it
<electra> yes - that makes great sense
<iris> yes, I always see Malkuth as a world unto itself
<electra> so do these twin towers relate to the Moon card between Malkuth and Netzach
<electra> you see those 2 towers, one on either side
<electra> i always get a bit confused with Malkuth where everything is
<electra> i haven't done the meditation on the twin towers but I feel that the atmosphere is very lunar somehow
<electra> it's a place for learning or experiencing mysteries
<electra> and meeting quite remarkable beings which would fit in with the Moon and going on to Netzach
<electra> i feel there is this pervasive mystical presence in that area, sort of protective but very exacting
<iris> It's a great place - familiar because of it's similarities to earth yet full of places and experiences to help us learn and be able to move on to more etheric lessons
<iris> yes! and this is the first place where we come "face to face" with them so to speak
<seandi> I've always found it to represent initiation
<electra> it's like there is a presence there that makes things happen
<electra> oh well that would fit in
<iris> it is in a lot of ways
<iris> well, I suppose you wouldn't realize you were there if you were not ready for it
<iris> being ready opens up a new awareness
<electra> i am always amazed by the incredible qualities that some of these energies have
<iris> oh me too!
<electra> there is always an element of surprise and you find yourself saying - well I never expected that
<iris> and that's part of what I love so much - it's always a new adventure no matter how many times you've been there
<electra> with the world path I have felt that energy there before but never understood it at all really
<electra> the suddenly to start relating to it and then you understand a little bit more
<iris> it's like a revving up for the next level
<electra> yes - there is always that ongoing energy, a kind of driving force
<electra> yes - it is really exciting
<iris> exactly - a little help to keep us going on
<electra> i think there is probably a kind of blessing that comes from these energies that enables you to see better
<iris> absolutely
<iris> does anyone want to meditate today?
<electra> I have a set of tarot cards, the hermetic ones in black and white, and for each card the author talks about each card as the Lord of this and the Lord of that so it does seem that each path has its own guardian
<electra> like the Sephira have their own archangels
<electra> Yes - good idea
<electra> I'm a bit at sea with this one so have you any pointers
<electra> that would help
<electra> i'm unsure of the best approach
<electra> it feels a bit distant
<iris> to get to the towers?
<electra> yes
<iris> ok, is getting to malkuth difficult?
<electra> no
<iris> ok, so do we want to go to the towers?
<electra> ok I think I get the idea - I'm ready to go
<electra> so shall i see you bak here in 15 mins
<iris> when you get into malkuth, just ask to go to the towers and we'll see where we wind up
<electra> ok but I think I got there already
<iris> anyone else coming?
<electra> something happened as it tends to !
<iris> what do you mean?
<electra> i think I should go now so I'll go
<electra> it's adventure time
<iris> electra is meditating
<seandi> i understand
<iris> will you join us today?
<iris> you only need a quiet place for about 15 minutes
<seandi> are these workshops usually about path working?
<iris> we meditate together online every other week
<iris> on the alternate weeks it's questions and discussion about whatever people want
<seandi> ok, i see
<iris> so we each go to meditate for about 15 minutes and then come back and share our experiences if we remember them
<iris> If you'd like to join us just find a quiet place for about the next 15 minutes, try to empty your mind and watch what happens! It's fun
<iris> I've got to go and join electra - I hope you decide to join us - I'll return in about 10 minutes
<iris> iris meditating...
<electra> i'm back- perhaps a couple of minutes early!
<electra> anyone else back yet?
<iris> I am
<electra> that was really good but it happened very quickly
<electra> I've always thought I would never be able to quite do that meditation
<electra> but I managed it
<iris> ?
<electra> that was very thought provoking as there were a lot of messages but most significantly one about how you create your reality and how you have the choice from moment to moment
<iris> :-)
<electra> something so mysterious about those towers which I thought would be impenetrable
<electra> and yet the wisdom that they have was there for the asking#
<iris> yes
<electra> there was a spirit guide who kept asking me at one point what I wanted to happen next and to create that
<iris> I saw this as they were trying to get you to "fly"
<electra> i ended up visiting the black tower
<electra> fly?
<electra> what does that mean?
<iris> yes, I'll explain in a moment - what happened in the black tower and where did you go first?
<electra> it was night I think and I was on the path between the towers and there was a black dragon hovering between the towers with what I thought was an iridescent white pearl in its claws - it was a big pearl
<electra> i went to the dragon and it gave me what I could then see was an egg
<electra> I felt I should take the egg to the black tower and I had the feeling that was symbolic of bring light to darkness, this white pearly egg illuminating the darkness of the black tower
<electra> I went up the steps of the tower, they were ancient and as I got further up the tower the steps and the staircase got smaller and smaller
<electra> until finally I got to the room at the top of the tower and all the time I could feel the presence of this spirit guide
<electra> a very wise man, very knowledgeable about the mysteries, a real master
<electra> he seemed to sit down with me
<electra> and he was asking me what I was going to do with the egg
<electra> what do you want to happen, make it happen
<electra> what would be sensible to want to happen
<electra> I wondered if the egg should crack or just fall open
<electra> i thought it should go on a stand and we just contemplate the egg
<electra> it seemed to be getting more and more iridescent and more and more compelling to look at until it seemed to remind me of a beautiful veil like a wispy cloud and higher levels of intelligence
<electra> all kinds of states of bliss
<electra> so we contemplated this egg
<electra> i had wondered if there would be a dragon inside of the egg but there is much more to it than that
<electra> this relates to some fundamental principles of wisdom but also to things that are happening in my life right now
<electra> so 2 very different levels of understanding for this experience
<iris> they are always multi leveled
<electra> i felt it was something for me to work with over time, not just something for now
<electra> yes - that has always been a surprise
<electra> so I created this egg and now I have to decide how the story goes
<iris> this is beautiful
<electra> so now during the next few days I will have to work with this, there is a great deal here
<electra> more than I know right now
<electra> interesting that I found some dragons quite unexpectedly on a website a day or so ago
<electra> I love dragons so I was so pleased to meet one in my visit
<iris> you were given the "gift" of the egg - it is the sign of a new beginning
<electra> i think it is also meant to be something to look after and to nurture
<electra> the fact that I love dragons and one should give me this I think is very symbolic because it shows trust
<iris> the "egg" holds all the material to grow if it is nurtured and cared for in the right environment
<electra> and also the fact that the egg got more beautiful and seemed to be evolving an identity of its own
<electra> i think it became less physical and much more subtle over the time I was meditating
<iris> isn't that what creating is all about?
<electra> definitely
<electra> i thought it was interesting that once i tuned into the towers it was instantaneous and I had to go then and there
<electra> and that the experience said what it had to say and that was it really
<electra> only took 7 minutes I think
<iris> oh, we can do a lot in a short amount of time!
<electra> so what is this about flying
<electra> yes - i was amazed by that
<iris> oh yes, maybe this will help
<iris> I'll start from the beginning...
<iris> I entered Malkuth from that tree trunk we experienced in the last meditation...
<iris> sandalphon was there to let me in
<iris> I found myself in the south on the beach
<electra> oh trees and Malkuth - wonderful!
<iris> ahead of me were three people
<electra> yes- I know it
<iris> :-)
<iris> one went north with "purpose" - I thought that was you
<electra> well it would be LOL!
<iris> LOL
<electra> and I was thinking about the north a day or so ago
<iris> next i found myself in the dark tower and I think you entered
<iris> anyway 2 of us were there and there was nothing - just darkness
<iris> we waited and walked around - still nothing
<iris> I suggested you open a door and suddenly light streamed in
<iris> it became more and more intense
<electra> yes - i can see that
<iris> it filled you and made you "lighter" and "lighter"
<iris> the guide kept saying to you - you can do it
<iris> let everything go
<iris> so I watched you get lighter but you couldn't get off the ground
<iris> and they kept encouraging you to "let go" of the things that were weighing you down
<iris> very shakily you lifted off the ground
<iris> slowly getting higher
<electra> oh well done me!
<iris> and then you just let go of this big weight - it looked like a brown box
<iris> and off you went soaring away
<electra> in a way that would be very symbolic of what happened today
<electra> i just seemed to get lighter and lighter in spirit
<iris> on my way back I saw the dragon - he was smiling
<electra> amazing!
<iris> well, that would be my interpretation
<iris> you were going - finally going - and everyone was so happy for you
<electra> well I'm sure that would please him as having entrusted me with that egg he would be pleased t see me doing something positive
<iris> I think you held the light of the world in your hands today
<electra> i think the brown box would symbolize anything that really ought to be buried, worldly concerns, illogical ideas based on convention - that sort of thing
<electra> well I'd better keep it up then
<iris> I think so too because it was so physical
<iris> in such a non physical experience
<iris> yes, keep your heart light!
<electra> yes I noticed today that that really does the trick
<iris> you have a lot of support and encouragement
<electra> it keeps you from getting bogged down in the earthly quagmire
<electra> from the spirit guides you mean
<iris> exactly
<electra> i can believe that
<iris> yes from the spirit guides
<electra> well that is all to the good because the path is not so easy if they are not happy
<iris> agreed!
<iris> I love these adventures
<electra> i had a very interesting insight yesterday
<iris> as usual - they are probably right
<electra> suddenly i found myself thinking of my inner world as 'the inner temple' and the outer world as 'the outer temple'
<iris> they give us all the steps we need if we just follow
<electra> and that was quite a revelation for me to find myself thinking in that way
<electra> so I guess that is why I found today so successful because I am seeing things in a different way
<electra> my concepts are changing
<electra> to be more in line with a more intelligent view of life
<iris> well, that's what I saw - a very difficult but important change
<electra> many thoughts or ideas I have I tend to reject, sometimes wrongly, but this seemed very sound to me
<electra> it's more the sort of thing that I expected, what I wanted to create
<iris> I find the right choice comes when I listen to my inner self
<electra> some of my ideas are not so wrong as I thought but not necessarily what I would really want
<electra> yes - it's getting in contact with that inner self
<electra> the other day I was saying to Hermes that I thought my inner guidance was way off balance and I really needed to do something
<iris> so you were asking
<electra> and he said things become more difficult when your emotions get in the way
<electra> yes - and I think that is what prompted those thoughts about the inner and outer temple
<electra> that was inspired by that energy
<iris> yes
<iris> it's more like there's no "right" or "wrong" rather, what's right for us at that moment
<iris> many times we go off on paths that just bring us in circles
<electra> yes - i've noticed that
<iris> it's not wrong but it ties up our energies
<iris> and we don't advance as we could
<electra> i've had to think a lot about what I really want
<electra> that is so linked up with your own personal identity and often we don't know that
<electra> it's taken me ages to work that one out
<iris> I agree
<electra> it depends so much on what is acceptable to you
<electra> and sometimes I'm not sure of that
<iris> that's all of us
<iris> it's not always clear
<electra> with these mediations are we concentrating on the Sephira for now
<iris> yes
<electra> there's no doubt that when we do these meditations on the Sephira there is often associated energies with the paths themselves
<iris> because they have so many lessons
<electra> or you find that you are attracting energies from the paths
<iris> yes
<electra> i was talking to Hermes about my experiences with the Star energy
<electra> and then there was the World today
<electra> and as you say it is all very exciting
<iris> :-)
<electra> and the energy keeps you going
<iris> oh yes!
<electra> because you are intrigued as to what will happen next
<electra> I'm looking forward tomorrow because I want to see how it follows on from today
<iris> and so every day and every moment becomes an exciting adventure
<electra> it was such a surprise when Hermes suddenly mailed me saying there was a workshop this evening - i had completely forgotten as I was so bound up with work
<electra> so instead of having a leisurely evening suddenly I'm here doing something totally unexpected and having this amazing experience
<iris> ah, messages come from physical beings too!
<electra> now that is being at the cutting edge of pathworking experience
<electra> it's where everyone wants to be
<iris> yes!
<electra> i haven't had time to look at Hermes new efforts on the website
<iris> and it is so simple really
<electra> I was thinking of looking this evening
* seandi ( Quit (Connection reset by peer)
<electra> I've got the website on my brain at the moment so I guess there must be stuff for me to look at there
<iris> me too - he said he was simplifying too
<electra> it's amazing what you can dig out from the search sometimes
<electra> We are thinking of dong a Topic of the Month - I was going to do a project on Tarot for it
<electra> but I think it is going to be a little more than that and will be a fixed topic on the website so a lot of work to do there
<electra> as that is all the Major and Minor Arcana cards
<electra> I am really looking forward to the 2 new CDs that are coming out soon
<electra> great timing from Hermes there as a fantastic project to do over Christmas as there is a piece on every Sephira
<electra> a new way of looking at the Christmas decorations LOL!
<iris> yes - and I love the idea of the tarot
<electra> well I think we're going to really hit the spot with this as what I want to do is pinpoint the specific energy of each card rather than doing a woolly generalization as a lot of authors do
<electra> divination is so specific I think that our concepts of the cards must be specific and we have to work with the energies there rather than with concepts
<iris> I think it's great
<electra> so we need to be able to use the definitions as a foundation for meditation on each card and that is what i am really aiming for
<electra> writing the stuff that I always hoped to find but didn't
<electra> i guess there will never be a completely final version - there will always be a better revision from time to time
<iris> because it has a life of its own
<electra> but I don't see how one can really work with the tarot unless one has done the meditation- it is just so important
<iris> it is dynamic
<electra> yes - and I don't think ppl understand this
<electra> it is dynamic and maybe that is the first thing one should say by way of introduction
<electra> it is not manmade
<iris> yes
<electra> therefore it is not amenable to conventional concepts
<iris> YES!
<electra> the very first card, the fool, tells us all about that
<electra> its going back to that idea of finding the Higher and Divine Genius that goes beyond being human
<electra> i think you have to find that in the tarot
<electra> then we can use it for self improvement
<electra> a lot of ppl are so frightened of divination because it is an unknown quantity
<iris> ppl fear anything unfamiliar
<electra> well one can never understand anything without studying it first
<electra> and for some reason ppl do not understand this where tarot is concerned
<iris> or experiencing it
<electra> exactly
<iris> and so, the tarot is misused and abused
<iris> because of a lack of understanding
<iris> I guess that's true of everything
<electra> i know quite a few ppl who dabble in the co-called occult and don't take it seriously enough to study it properly yet think they are qualified to give a reading
<electra> yes - it is true for a great many things
<iris> that very thing made me stop using them for quite some time
<electra> i think it takes some time to come to terms with the tools of the trade!
<iris> I didn't like what ppl wanted them for and what they used them for
<electra> somehow they have to become part of oneself
<electra> so often a certain amount of transformation has to take place outside of ones relationship with the tarot or whatever
<iris> yes, just like the Tree of Life does
<electra> yes - it took me some time to be able to really accept that
<electra> I liked it but it's a whole other ball game, it really is
<electra> what I liked the most at first were the geometrical shapes in it
<electra> i think that is what kept the attraction going
<electra> the finally i just started looking at it more and more
<iris> they called out to you
<electra> and things would start happening and then I realized that I was really relating to it
<electra> yes - i think so
<electra> it really began to happen the summer before last when we had all these floods here in the UK
<electra> there was a quietness that came over the whole country and suddenly the bottom triangle just emerged
<electra> especially Yesod and Tiphareth
<electra> and the Temperance path
<electra> and that whole energy kept circulating and circulating
<electra> and i think those 2 sephira have unknowingly been very important throughout my life
<electra> and the temperance path
<iris> this is fascinating
<electra> so today we kind of matched in the missing link which is the world path which i never quite managed to capture
<electra> well I'm glad this is making sense to you as I'm doing all the talking here LOL!
<iris> yes, and I didn't realize how significant this was for you
<electra> well I think the temperance path is all about doing hard work at a very high level and working towards very high ideals and fending off any influences that would try and detract from that
<electra> i think the world path is very difficult to achieve unless you are in exactly the right environment
<electra> i think to achieve the temperance path you have to have very strong convictions about what you believe in and what you know is right
<electra> and I think you also have to have a very strong sense of destiny
<iris> and it's difficult because not ppl are on that path
<electra> it's a bit like feeling you are called
<iris> yes, i agree
<electra> well I think it is a stark choice between acquiescing to the forces of ignorance or cutting through the jungle until you find the secret temple of the ancestors and I definitely went for the latter option
<iris> and we choose to be different
<iris> ME TOO!
<electra> i decided that we're going to die if we do nothing so might as well fight for survival in the hope that you might make it
<electra> yes - you have to choose to be different
<electra> it's a necessity
<electra> i always felt that I didn't want to end up like everyone else
<electra> it was too appalling to contemplate
<iris> me either - from when I was a child
<electra> i think it is something you are born with
<iris> agreed!
<electra> it is something that you just have to do
<electra> you are attracted to this thing like a magnet and it to you
<iris> oh yes
<iris> more than anything else
<electra> i think one knows this once you realize that you see things differently to how others do
<electra> and you see that they find things acceptable which you do not
<iris> yes
<electra> and maybe you see things that they can't see and hear things that they can't hear or simply don't want to hear and you realize that they are in a kind of group which is creating a false reality that doesn't exist
<electra> and maybe you see them creating something as a group and you realize that you are not included in that
<electra> and that they cannot see what they are doing
<iris> oh yes
<electra> well obviously this is all very familiar but i think it needs saying from time to time just to remind ourselves who we are and how we got here
<iris> that's what is so nice about being here
<iris> because for a little time each week we can be together with ppl like ourselves
<electra> well I really like these sessions when we can do the meditations and then get talking about how this works in our realities
<iris> me too
<iris> it really helps the focus
<electra> well tarot is great for that of course
<iris> :-)
<electra> but if we can get these strong intuitive experiences in our group meditation where we interact like you and i did tonight - well when that happens things really rock
<electra> we then start building a real group because I think that's how it starts
<iris> I think so too
<electra> it's the beginning of a group reality where we begin to help each other at a psychic level
<electra> and we get a better fix on how we are doing than if we were just working on our own
<iris> yes and we need that here when we are in a world on such a different level
<electra> actually Hermes and I were talking about this a while back
<iris> it makes such a difference
<electra> yes it does
<electra> and if more ppl could do it what a difference it would make
<electra> we were saying how some of our physical experiences were cross-referencing with each other
<electra> you can get other ppl's realities coming over into your life and these experiences tend to be labeled so you know
<electra> and then you can tell them
<electra> like a message from the ministry of group consciousness
<iris> yes that would happen
<electra> maybe its a bit like an egregore - miniature version of
<iris> yes
<electra> hermes was telling me that you are an expert on herbal nutrition
<electra> a bit beyond the scope of this log file
<iris> but, yes, I am into it
<electra> though we are planning to do something on herbs - i said i would do something after I finished the tarot
<electra> well maybe we could do this together
<iris> now that's a thought
<iris> I would like that
<electra> at least I could write the sort of stuff I think the website needs on this topic and then you could give me your comments
<iris> great!
<electra> i'll e-mail you about this - there are a few basic questions i want to ask you
<iris> good - I look forward to it
<iris> it's another area not so much accepted
<electra> this is not something I am going to rush headlong into because there is so much woolly thinking about herbs and some of the info is so vague
<electra> so there are these vast tomes written on herbal medicine and some of it does not seem to be so intelligible on a practical level
<iris> oh yes - and they can damage as well as help
<electra> we want to get to the heart of what herbal medicine is all about
<electra> so far I have not seen anyone discuss this and i think it is very important
<iris> well, count me in!
<iris> now I have to go so email me and we can continue this thread
<electra> i guess that with the major arcana there is some link with herbal medicine and healing for each card
<electra> someone has actually done a herbal tarot and it has a very nice feel to it
<iris> see I think so too
<electra> but that is way in the future as that would take some major league skills to be done really competently and authentically
<iris> oh really? I am interested
<electra> i'll see if i can find it on amazon and send you the link
<electra> it's basically the ryder waite deck but each card has an associated herb
<electra> herbs have their own living identities and they can speak to you
<iris> great, thanks
<electra> i'm really not so sure how much can be learnt form books
<electra> books
<iris> yes, herbs have their own dynamic
<electra> well all plants do really and in some ways they are not so different from crystals
<electra> they have amazing properties that the ordinary mind would not be able to relate to
<electra> i found this out with the herb rosemary
<electra> for me it has amazing properties - the high priestess would like this herb
<electra> amazing spiritual properties that is
<electra> same with lavender
<iris> my favorite
<electra> and i like to put those two together
<electra> what rosemary?
<electra> or lavender?
<iris> lavender
<electra> oh it is so lovely
<iris> never thought to put them together
<electra> and you can have lavender in herbal tea
<iris> yes
<electra> yes - lavender and rosemary work combined as oils in aroma therapy
<iris> I am going to try it
<electra> go easy on the rosemary if it particularly strong
<electra> it takes a bit of experimentation to get the mix right as no 2 bottles of oil are the same
<electra> lavender is supposed to be very good for healing the skin
<electra> i've been meaning to look that up
<iris> actually, I am using it in a mouthwash right now for some dental surgery I had last week!
<iris> it's wonderful
<electra> oh that's interesting
<iris> yes, as an antibacterial
<iris> and healer
<electra> so is that a lavender infusion of sorts - what exactly are you using?
<iris> oils in distilled water
<electra> oh ok
<iris> also has some echinacea
<electra> and what will that do?
<electra> prevent inflammation perhaps
<iris> well, promotes healthy tissue
<electra> i didn't know that echinacea could do that
<electra> normally you think of cold and flu prevention
<iris> I know
<iris> but i recently met a dentist who has been making his own blends for years
<electra> oh amazing
<iris> yes, it's a new area of exploration for me too
<iris> anyway, I have to go
<electra> oh ok
<iris> we'll have to continue on email
<electra> i think this is already the longest log file in the history of the website LOL!
<iris> I think so!
<electra> yes - I'll email you
<iris> great
<electra> this is an endless source of conversation
<iris> and thanks for a great experience today
<electra> so see you in a fortnight for another meditation!
<iris> :-)
<electra> well thank you for making it happen - wouldn't have happened without u
<iris> or you!
<electra> bye for now!
<iris> bye!
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Session Close: Thu Nov 13 22:05:19 2008

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