Lucid dreams, Launching an Out of body experience from a lucid dream; about travel meditations; missing limbs and heart transplants; bi-location; what is ascension; real and unreal dream elements; the boundaries of dreams; monotomic gold; prognostikon; Morpheus
September 27, 2007 (workshop log file)

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Session Start: Thu Sep 27 16:26:54 2007
Session Ident: #energyworks
* Now talking in #energyworks
* Topic is 'Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.'
* Set by Gamble! on Tue Sep 25 16:51:24
<Hermes> Hi Attuned
* Retrieving #energyworks modes...
* Hermes changes topic to 'Workshop today'
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<attuned> hi
<Hermes> hi darlok
<Darlok> hi whatsup guys
<Darlok> hey Hermes.. i had a lucid dream i think where i was conscious in it
<Hermes> what happened in it
<Darlok> and then i got beat up by sum bums until the point of death and then my body started to leave my body
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<Darlok> i think i had an OBE at that point but then i got scared and returned back to my body
<Darlok> and woke up
<Daniel58> Hi again
<Hermes> hi daniel
<Hermes> wow not the best way to have an OBE, by being beaten up
<Darlok> lol i guess not
<Hermes> yea once you become lucid in a dream it is fairly easy to leave the dream and your body
<Darlok> how do u do it?
<Hermes> I usually start levitating upward
<Hermes> and then out of the dream
<Hermes> the dream falls away
<Hermes> and then you are out of the body
<Hermes> usually someplace else
<Hermes> i levitate upward with the intent of leaving the dream and having an obe
<Hermes> just levitating will not do it
<Hermes> you need the intent
<Darlok> i see
<Darlok> when i was leaving my body i was excited i was gonna meet Jesus and then boom, my intentions went down to the toilet when i woke up
<Hermes> it is actually quite natural to leave the body from a lucid dream
<Hermes> your fear is gone at that point
<Hermes> because you are coming from a dream
<Hermes> so you do not have to contend with fear getting in the way
<Darlok> so there's no fear in a Lucid Dream?
<Hermes> usually not
<Hermes> the physical ego is dormant
<Hermes> and that is where most of the fear comes from
<Hermes> the fear of leaving the body
<Hermes> i mean you can experience fear in a lucid dream
<Hermes> but the kind of fear most people have about leaving their body
<Hermes> that kind of fear is not there
<Hermes> from a lucid dream
<Daniel58> How can you get over the fear of leaving your body when you want to for example in meditation
<Darlok> yeah because i was scared a little getting my ass kicked by the bums.. Almost wanted to fight back gut then something told me not to bother
<Hermes> you have to want it bad enough to overcome your fear
<Daniel58> Okay
<Hermes> close your eyes and grin and bear it?
<Hermes> say what the heck and let go?
<Hermes> there is nothing to fear
<Hermes> if that helps
<Daniel58> Because last times with me in meditation I didn't felt it as strong as the times before, I didn't get light in the head or anything
<Daniel58> just relax
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<Hermes> well you are getting used to the energy
<Hermes> so it is not pushing out so easily
<Hermes> it really is okay to get comfortable with the energy
<Hermes> first
<Daniel58> okay
<Hermes> than get to the travel meditation
<Hermes> so how are your meditations coming along
<Daniel58> Yesterday I meditated again, but I am experience less than before, just silence
<Daniel58> I don't know what to do or where to focus on
<Hermes> well at first you just work on quieting the mind
<Hermes> once the mind is quiet
<Hermes> than you can think about traveling
<Hermes> but not too hard
<Hermes> its a relaxed kind of travel
<Hermes> you want to travel, let's say to Malkuth
<Hermes> but you do not push to go there
<Daniel58> so when you travel are you aware of your body?
<Hermes> you just keep that in the back of your head
<Hermes> yes, it is a very mild form of obe
<Daniel58> okay
<Hermes> you get images
<Daniel58> like the last time
<Hermes> yes
<Hermes> if you focus on any one image you will lose them
<Daniel58> that was very nice
<Hermes> the idea is to just let them happen
<Hermes> then after the meditation you can recall them and put the images together into some kind of movie
<Daniel58> maybe I have fear to forget the images
<Hermes> no, you just are not aware of them yet
<Hermes> there really is no fear in a travel meditation
<Hermes> as your consciousness does not fully leave the body
<Hermes> you send a part of your consciousness out
<Hermes> but most of it stays in
<Hermes> you feel your body and are aware of it all the time
<Daniel58> yes now I think what the problem was, I didn't believe that I could see it all because I felt my body and was aware of it
<Daniel58> I always thought that you don't feel your body when you experience something like this
<Hermes> in a full obe you do not
<Hermes> but in this travel meditation it is a bit different
<Daniel58> but that's a step forward
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<Daniel58> I guess
<Daniel58> okay thanks
<Hermes> yes the travel meditation starts the process
<Hermes> it starts to lower the fear factor
<Hermes> because you get an idea of the nonphysical in a non threatening way
<Daniel58> So that you get used to it
<Daniel58> okay
<Daniel58> I think your book will help me in this to now more about the nonphysical
<Daniel58> I received it today
<Daniel58> Fast delivery! :)
<Hermes> yea i try to send them out as quick as i can
<Daniel58> thanks!
<Hermes> thanks for the book order too. it will help you allot in understanding the nonphysical
<Daniel58> Yesterday I thought of meditating because of the full moon will it help with meditating?
<Hermes> it can
<Hermes> the extra energy from the moon
<Hermes> moon
<Hermes> can help you to have more images in meditation
<Hermes> i had found at one time my best time for OBE was just after the full moon
<Daniel58> Okay I remember it
<Daniel58> And do you know why after the full moon
<Hermes> all the obe books I had read suggested that when the moon was getting full was the better time
<StNef> hi hermes...hi everyone
<Hermes> but in my case i found the few days just after the full moon were my most active
<Hermes> i think people are all different, so you may want to experiment with that
<Hermes> hi StNef
<Daniel58> okay
<Daniel58> Hi STNef
<StNef> sorry...dont mean to disrupt you conversation....
<StNef> i've emailed you a few times...but this is the first time i'm fortunate enough to catch you in the chat room
<StNef> nice to finally meet you here
<Hermes> glad to be here
<StNef> yep...same here
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<orph> Hi :)
<StNef> hey orph
<Daniel58> Hi Orph!
<orph> hey :)
<orph> what's the topic?
<Hermes> we were talking about lucid dreams and travel meditations
<orph> :D
<StNef> hey hermes ...i wanted to ask you something about my lucid dreams..
<Hermes> sure
<StNef> maybe you might have already answered this to others..
<StNef> ever since i've started lucid dreaming, i always enter it by getting OOB ...
<StNef> 99% of the times ...after i wake at 3AM...i go back to bed...get the vibes....and then i get out of body...
<Hermes> you enter a lucid dream from an out of body experience? It usually is the other way around, You leave the body from a lucid dream.
<Hermes> ah
<Hermes> yes i understand
<Hermes> yes that is another easy way to go out of body
<Hermes> just after waking up from a dream
<StNef> as soon as i get out ....i go out my window...and the surroundings are too different than reality...
<Hermes> your ego is still asleep so fear is at a minimum
<StNef> ahh ok
<Hermes> yes after you leave the door or window you can wind up anywhere
<Hermes> you do not have to wind up in the yard
<StNef> ohh ok
<StNef> how do i know if that's a dream plane or not
<Hermes> doors and windows in out of body experiences can transport you other places
<Hermes> usually when you are out of the body you are in the second nonphysical form
<Hermes> that form does not have dream elements coming in
<StNef> most of the times...the surroundings are related to the real world...but different or warped...
<StNef> ahh ok
<Hermes> yea your nonphysical eyes can see around corners
<Hermes> and you can see other colors
<Hermes> like ultra violet
<StNef> yea
<orph> and anything with text is super strange as well most of the time
<orph> papers, road signs...
<StNef> usually , I'm more concerned with actually doing something that i don't take the time to look at any text
<StNef> any small text on papers and stuff that is
<orph> there is a technique where during the daytime you do "reality checks" so that you know you are awake,
<orph> if you are to make a habit out of that,
<orph> you will do it habitually in dreams too
<orph> and know that you are in the dreamworld
<StNef> yea...that's true...
<orph> might take a bit long though
<StNef> yea ...I've been practicing it...but i've kinda become accustomed to the wake-back-to-bed routine
<Hermes> after awhile you can become confused on what happened in what reality as well
<Hermes> so what is that reality trick?
<StNef> the frequent one i use is just asking myself if i'm dreaming...
<orph> it's something like pinching yourself to see if you are awake or asleep ^^
<StNef> i look around for anything out of the ordinary...
<StNef> or check the clock twice to see if its showing the right time
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<Hermes> sometimes i will look at something that is perfectly crazy and say, okay I am awake
<Hermes> then realize after I wake that I was sleeping
<StNef> haha
<orph> looking at the hands tends to trigger the realization of being asleep for many people
<StNef> yea...its amazing how your mind logic works in dreams sometimes
<StNef> after i get out of body , sometimes i still doubt that its really i will tell my self if i can pass through the window, its a dream
<Hermes> yea that is a good test, I use that too, walk through the door or wall
<StNef> and then as i fly through the window, i have a hard time, but still i get through...and i would think..."i couldn't get through maybe this is real"
<Hermes> you have three nonphysical bodies
<Hermes> the first nonphysical body cannot pass through things
<Hermes> so to pass through a wall you have to make the change
<Hermes> this is why it is hard at first
<StNef> ahhh
<Hermes> to pass through the wall or door
<StNef> that makes sense
<Hermes> once you make the switch to the second nonphysical body you can float and walk through stuff
<StNef> can you do that on the fly once our out of body?
<Hermes> yes
<Hermes> thought makes it happen
<StNef> oh ok
<StNef> i just have to be conscious about it
<Hermes> its a lightening of the body
<Hermes> like a submarine letting off ballast
<Hermes> if you continue then you change into the third nonphysical body
<Hermes> which has the least restrictions
<Hermes> it travels faster than light
<Hermes> and can leave the solar system
<StNef> when i change bodies like that, does the way i perceive the plane or dream world change too?
<StNef> for example ...sometimes my lucid dreams are hazy and not clear
<Hermes> yes perception does change with the body you use
<StNef> if i change to a higher body, would what i see be more vivid?
<Hermes> the first body will give you that hazy not clear thing
<StNef> ohh ok
<Hermes> the second body is very sharp and vivid
<Hermes> the third body has super senses for viewing stellar events like looking at the sun or standing on it
<StNef> oh cool
<Hermes> so when you are something dim like the earth, everything is very dark
<StNef> ahh
<Hermes> when you are looking at something dim ^
<Hermes> so
<Hermes> if you leave your body and everything is dark and incoherent
<Hermes> you are in the third nonphysical body
<Hermes> this is the best interstellar travel vehicle
<Hermes> i just float upward and allow the nonphysical currents to take me someplace
<StNef> awesome
<StNef> that maybe explains why when i'm lucid, i try to fly to outer space...but as soon as i do, i wake up
<Hermes> yep
<StNef> maybe i was in my first body...and it couldn't handle it
<Hermes> you have to lighten your nonphyscial body
<Hermes> its like thinning yourself out
<Hermes> you kind of stretch yourself or what feels like stretching yourself thinner
<Hermes> as your float upward
<StNef> if you switch to higher body, does your recollection of your experiences change too?
<Hermes> you still remember them
<Hermes> no matter what body you are in
<Hermes> just your perceptions change
<StNef> oh ok
<orph> can I ask an off topic question?
<Hermes> sure
<orph> the physical heart and the heart chakra are connected, like, the same heart manifesting on different planes
<orph> so
<orph> what happens to the chakra, when the heart is replaced
<orph> in surgery
<orph> or when a person gets a...
<orph> what is it called
<orph> pacemaker?
<Hermes> it is the heart that mirrors the chakra
<Hermes> so if the chakra is damaged
<Hermes> and the new heart is replaced
<Hermes> and the damaged chakra is not fixed
<Hermes> the new heart will eventually develop a problem
<Hermes> i do not think the pace maker would affect the charka at all
<Hermes> but no doubt that is the person needs a pace maker the chakra is not functioning properly
<orph> those mechanic hearts have not been around very long, is there a new type of problems the heart chakra can be having?
<orph> to manifest that way in the physical
<Hermes> a mechanical system would not have the same connection to the chakra as a biological system
<Hermes> i would think it would not affect the chakra at all
<Hermes> the chakra would just try to connect to a heart that is not there
<Hermes> well
<Hermes> i am speculating as this is a unique question for sure
<Hermes> speculating^
<orph> ok
<Hermes> i know the chakra feeds the body
<Hermes> not the other way around
<Hermes> so in theory
<Hermes> not having some part in the body should not affect the chakra
<Hermes> it would just not have any connection to a physical part
<orph> the energy doesn't usually connect to inorganic material
<orph> ?
<Hermes> i would think not, but that is just a guess
<Hermes> the heart chakra would most likely create a etheric heart
<Hermes> that would then serve the purpose of feeding the body
<Hermes> with heart chakra energy
<orph> *nods
<StNef> i don't know if this is of any use...but i am an amputee .... I miss a right leg..
<Hermes> i bet you still feel that leg sometimes
<StNef> in my out of body experiences and lucid dreams, i always have both legs
<StNef> yep
<orph> hope you don't mind me asking; do you have a synthetic replacement?
<Hermes> yea it exists in the etheric plane
<StNef> yea ... I have a prosthetic
<StNef> *prosthetic leg
<orph> I sometimes wonder about those, whether you could invoke the energy of the etheric body part there
<orph> so that there would be feedback
<orph> like creating the etheric angel to gather data
<StNef> yea...but i guess i didn't have to invoke guessing my non physical body was unaffected
<Hermes> i think in time they could make some kind of sensitive circuit that could read that etheric body
<Hermes> and then use that for movement, though they are not really pursuing that kind of thing
<orph> that would be perfect
<Hermes> i have seen specials on them developing tech to interface with the spinal cord
<StNef> that would be cool
<Hermes> but taping the etheric body would work better i suspect. Perhaps one day.
<orph> perhaps
<orph> there are those legends
<orph> where saints can project themselves around the world
<orph> like, etheric projection
<orph> rather then astral projection
<orph> I guess it's a denser type of energy
<StNef> who are saints?
<orph> so if a device existed that could densen the energy...
<StNef> (sorry...not familiar with them)
<orph> yes
<orph> there was that story with a pope...
<orph> umm
<orph> read it so long ago
<orph> one of his priests attended to a special ceremony while he was also ill in his monastery, thousands of miles away
<orph> so he was recorded being on two places
<orph> but in india there are students of those master teachers who all claim to have seen their teacher on the same day all over the country
<orph> anyway, just thinking ^^
<orph> ah
<orph> here is one such story
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<Hermes> yea it is an advance skill
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<Hermes> that is a master is supposed to be able to do
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<orph> well, with the proper training, that skill would enable us to recreate the body
<orph> or be a young man one day
<orph> and an old woman another day
<orph> just be what you want, create the body with the energy
<Hermes> very true
<Hermes> the etheric body is easily manipulated with thought
<StNef> yea...when you're at that level, i guess you'd be able to
<orph> oh, Hermes, I had one more question before being off today :)
<orph> have you ever heard of something called the prognostikon?
<Daniel58> Another off topic question does anybody know something about monotomic gold?
<Hermes> sure go ahead orph
<Hermes> i never heard of monotomic gold
<StNef> what is it?
<Daniel58> okay :) I don't know much about it either, but a friend ordered it today and has taken it but i don't know what to think of it
<Daniel58> it will take you to a higher spiritual level or something like that ?
<orph> daniel, there are stories of living gold of which the ankhs were created in ancient egypt
<orph> perhaps its related
<StNef> i'm reading up on it was supposedly used by ancient cultures to feed their light body
<Daniel58> yes it is something like that what I remember
<Hermes> how is it mad
<StNef> did it have any effects on your friend?
<Hermes> how is it made
<Daniel58> I don't know he just took it today in pure form I heard, the effects you feel in a few days I think
<orph> you consume it?
<Daniel58> yes
<orph> ok
<orph> it rings a bell now
<orph> yea
<orph> came across it on some alchemy site a long time ago
<orph> will let you know if I can dig up a link :)
<Hermes> i am usually skeptical on those supplements they sell
<Daniel58> Me also
<Hermes> i have found only one sure way to spiritual enlightenment
<Hermes> hard work and determination
<Daniel58> But I am curious what will happen to him or what the experience is with it
<Darlok> Hermes.. when people ascend to they ascend to the 5th dimension? Do some people go past the 5th .. DO we all end up in the same place when we ascend?
<Daniel58> I think that's the best way
<orph> depends how strongly he beliefs in the results
<Daniel58> you lean more about things
<Daniel58> than just take anything to bring you to a level
<Hermes> there are always new levels to reach to
<Hermes> however ascension in the human sense
<Hermes> is when the physical body is replaced with the light body
<Hermes> and the light body
<Hermes> retains all the properties of the physical body
<Hermes> the new ascended person can now manifest themselves on any level of reality
<orph> hermes, the prognostikon was found between the ruins of an ancient greek city, it's a protective charm and I was trying to figure out the symbolism on it. picture:
<Hermes> physical reality or nonphysical realty
<Hermes> it looks like it has several different kinds
<Hermes> some egyptian
<Hermes> some alchemical
<orph> ok
<orph> I'll be researching it :)
<orph> it just looks so
<orph> well, attractive in a charm kind of way
<orph> and elaborate
<StNef> how big is it?
<orph> like a big coin
<StNef> oh ok
<orph> but I gotta run,
<orph> happy rest of the workshop :)
<orph> goodnight
<StNef> see ya orph
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<StNef> hermes, when you encounter other beings in lucid dreams, is there an easy way to tell if they're real or just dream characters made up by your own mind?
<Hermes> if they are a dream character you created you can banish them
<Hermes> you just say, I banish you, I withdraw my energy from you
<StNef> ahh of course!
<StNef> makes sense
<Hermes> it works most of the time
<StNef> oh ok
<Hermes> but on the 1 percent it does not work, well than you have to deal with whoever they are
<Hermes> that you created
<StNef> yea
<Hermes> when i realize i am lucid
<Hermes> i just go the extra step and leave the dream and turn it into an obe
<Hermes> that way all that crazy stuff from your mind disappears
<StNef> ahh ok
<Hermes> but of course you have to get comfortable first with making yourself lucid
<Hermes> i am just saying that is the logical next step in the process
<Hermes> its fun to run around a lucid dream but
<StNef> yes...that's what ultimately want to do
<Hermes> you will find there are boundaries
<Hermes> you can only go so far
<Hermes> before you reach the limits of the lucid dream'
<StNef> i want to accomplish some useful things
<Daniel58> Hermes thank you for the information in this workshop I go to bed now
<Hermes> ok have a good night Daniel
<Daniel58> Bye till next week !
<Daniel58> thanks
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<Hermes> when i had become good at lucid dreaming
<Hermes> i found it interesting to see how far you could walk before the dream would fall away
<Hermes> it has these boundaries that if you pass them, the dream ends
<StNef> hehe
<Hermes> yes very strange
<Hermes> a small world sort of
<Hermes> like a play
<Hermes> with a stage
<StNef> up till now, i didn't analyze the dream ending limitations...
<Hermes> a stage that only goes so far
<Hermes> and if you are careful you can poise yourself at the edge of the dream
<StNef> i always thought it had something to with my mind handling the realization of the dream
<Hermes> keep one foot in and one foot out
<Hermes> it may have something to do with that
<Hermes> dreams are so specific at times
<Hermes> they are constructed for a limited purpose
<StNef> yea ... I know what u mean about one foot in and one foot out
<Hermes> and they do not exist outside of that purpose
<StNef> sometimes i would lucid dream and i would partly see my own room from where i am lying in the same time experiencing the dream
<Hermes> yes, that is very good
<Hermes> you were able to see the boundaries of the dream
<StNef> yea :)
<Hermes> sometimes
<Hermes> your spirit guides will take on parts in your dreams
<Hermes> become characters
<StNef> yea ...i've read it from you before
<Hermes> as you are working on becoming dream lucid you can watch for them doing strange things to help jolt you into lucid state
<StNef> i'm aiming to meet them and have a good conversation
<Hermes> you will
<Hermes> keep at it
<Hermes> So darlok how often do you have lucid dreams?
<Hermes> are there any other questions or things to add
<StNef> just one last one :)
<Hermes> sure
<StNef> you know Morpheus from greek mythology?
<Hermes> the god of dreams
<StNef> yea...does he or someone like him exist in the dream world?
<Hermes> and the guy in the Matrix movies
<StNef> yea ... i don't know if there's a lot of connections to the guy from the matrix movies though
<StNef> (i'm talking about the god of dreams)
<Hermes> to be honest I can't say i have found any one being that fits that description in dreams, that just walks in dreams
<StNef> ohh ok
<Hermes> Sandalphon, who resides in Malkuth would be the closest I could come up with
<StNef> oh ok
<StNef> the reason i asked was...
<StNef> i called out for morpheus in one of my lucid dreams...
<Hermes> what happened
<StNef> and when i did, there was this being...he resembled a bird ..kinda like a raven....
<StNef> dark looking...but i sensed friendliness
<Hermes> various nonphysical masters would often play these parts
<Hermes> and myths rose up around them
<StNef> instead of wings...he kinda had ragged and ripped cape...
<StNef> ohh ok...
<Hermes> so someone at one time had to play this being
<StNef> i was just curious if it resembled someone you might have known about
<Hermes> and in theory you could call him up by calling his name
<Hermes> in the last weeks group meditation we saw a bird man
<StNef> oh cool
<StNef> was it a black bird of some kind?
<Hermes> best we could tell he was Horus
<Hermes> yes some kind of black bird
<StNef> ohh
<StNef> in my experience, after he appeared...he seemed playful ....i was chasing him around to talk to in the air...
<StNef> but he kept flying around and eventually disappeared
<Hermes> perhaps he wanted you to fly out of the dream
<Hermes> with him
<Hermes> and was trying to get you to follow
<StNef> ahhh...i think so
<StNef> i will try and meet him again next time
<Hermes> yes
<Hermes> do that and let us know
<StNef> for sure
<Hermes> it be interesting to see who he links to in today's thinking
<StNef> yea
<StNef> well that is all hermes ...i also have to go now
<StNef> thanks for answering my questions
<Hermes> good to meet you
<Hermes> i look forward to seeing you here again
<StNef> you've turned some stones over in my my head...
<StNef> good to finally meet you too
<Hermes> Darlok, attuned, and raul, I am going to depart as well
<Hermes> hope to see all of you back next week
<StNef> take care hermes...take care all
<StNef> bye
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Session Close: Thu Sep 27 18:49:15 2007

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