the afterlife and reincarnation; fake fear and real fear; change and rest; dealing with loss; the internet as consciousness; 2012;
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Session Start: Thu Jul 19 16:38:20 2007
Session Ident: #energyworks
* Now talking in #energyworks
* Topic is 'Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood.'
* Set by Gamble!gamble@chello213047138075.8.11.vie.surfer.at on Wed Jul 04 13:20:51
<hermes> howdy
<hermes> iris could no make it today
* ZenBot_ sets mode: +o Gamble
<attuned> hi
<Gamble> greetz
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<Zainy> hello?
<attuned> hello
<Zainy> hi :) i have a question about reincarnation, etc
<hermes> sure
<Zainy> what if someone were well-meaning, but kind of lazy.. do we HAVE to reincarnate and come back here? cant we just die and go to heaven?
<hermes> if all the life lessons are not learned you get pulled back to physical reality
<hermes> you eventually
<hermes> desire to return
<hermes> return
<hermes> your desire because you have not completed the lessons pulls you back
<Zainy> eventually? does that mean we also get a break?
<hermes> no one forces you
<hermes> sure
<hermes> you can take as long as you like
<Zainy> :) oh, that's a relief
<hermes> most people wait 200 years between life times
<hermes> but there is not set rule
<Zainy> i've been agonizing about this for a long time!
<hermes> nay reincarnation is not something forced on an individual
<hermes> it is desire driven, you desire to return and so you do
<Zainy> i suppose i wont be in the same frame of mind when i "die".. i worry myself
<hermes> that is true
<Zainy> but i guess in the long run its worth it
<hermes> it is the fastest way to evolve
<hermes> the struggle in physical reality really gets the fire going under you
<hermes> in an environment where there is no struggle
<Zainy> what do you mean?
<hermes> there is little need to perfect yourself
<hermes> so souls who do not become physical for long times
<hermes> grow very little
<Zainy> are they happy where they are?
<Zainy> in that perfect world of dreams? (if there is such a place)
<hermes> sure, mostly
<hermes> it is a care free life in the nonphysical
<hermes> but you are still you
<hermes> so if you do not like something about yourself that will not change
<Zainy> concerning today's topic - the fear.. i remember you once mentioned there is a fake fear and a real one. could you explain that a little bit more? please?
<hermes> real fear would be something like, standing on the edge of a cliff looking over and trying to stay on top
<hermes> there is great danger
<hermes> at that moment and fear here is a good thing
<hermes> it keeps you from jumping off
<hermes> fake fear would be fearing the cliff when you are sitting on your couch
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<hermes> you are no where near the cliff yet you are fearing it
<hermes> the first fear is normal and healthy
<hermes> the second fear paralyzes you when there is no need
<Zainy> what about fearing trials and tribulation?
<hermes> same rule really applies
<Zainy> you know you'll come out okay and better for it, but you fear the sting
<hermes> if you are not engaged in the trial you should not fear it
<Zainy> wont i be paralyzed from exposing myself to challenge?
<hermes> the fear of the actual moment mobilizes you into action
<Zainy> but the trials come all of a sudden
<hermes> fear propels you to do something or not
<hermes> but when you build up fears within yourself on things that may happen or may not happen
<hermes> that is a fake fear
<hermes> it may be real one day
<hermes> but not today
<hermes> so the fear has no correct action
<hermes> so instead of mobilizing your it freezes you
<hermes> you focus on the fear and get no where
<Zainy> so its a waste of energy
<hermes> yes
<hermes> that is the point of fake fear
<hermes> it wastes your time and energy
<Zainy> so how do you get rid of fears that you have learnt to have from past shock?
<hermes> easier said than done
<Zainy> :)
<hermes> but you begin by realizing this fear does not exist right now
<hermes> then shift your focus to something else
<hermes> change it from the fake fear
<hermes> the more you focus on fake fears the more they come back
<hermes> the less you focus on them the faster than go away
<hermes> than go away = they go away
<Zainy> you're right, but i hope i wont be cheating myself when i get too comfortable
<Zainy> that's what it felt like before
<hermes> ahaha
<hermes> yea
<hermes> comfortable
<hermes> life usually does not let you get too comfortable for too long
<Zainy> that's why i'm kind of nervous
<hermes> life is made up of small and large victories
<Zainy> i don't know when or where the next strike will be
<hermes> that is how you evolve
<hermes> through the pressure of physical life
<hermes> you can be comfortable
<hermes> and lead a happy life
<hermes> but that pressure to always change and evolve is always there
<hermes> it gnaws at you
<Zainy> you know, i've lost that feeling...
<Zainy> i don't know why
<hermes> what feeling
<Zainy> the feeling that i want to evolve ..
<Zainy> i don't mean i don't wish to improve myself
<hermes> how long has it been
<Zainy> i just mean i have no motivation to DO it .. i guess i'm tired
<Zainy> i cant remember.. a year and a half?
<Zainy> i've lost 3 people
<hermes> it is normal to take a break from evolving yourself
<Zainy> they died
<Zainy> each one in summer
<Zainy> then came a divorce
<Zainy> and after that... i just felt kind of spent
<hermes> change is not easy
<hermes> and after great change there is rest
<hermes> that is normal
<Zainy> i don't understand how i evolved after the deaths though..
<hermes> the greater the change usually the greater the rest
<hermes> well
<hermes> the feelings you had with the loss changed you
<hermes> in ways
<hermes> your thoughts
<hermes> how you approach life
<hermes> and this also changed your direction in life i am sure
<hermes> as you did not have these people to interact with anymore
<hermes> that had to cause a change
<Zainy> maybe in ways i didn't notice
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<Zainy> i am trying not to be paranoid about losing others, though
<hermes> loss is not easy
<hermes> it is the hardest thing in this reality
<hermes> in the nonphysical there is no loss
<hermes> everyone is always there
<hermes> easily reachable
<Zainy> yes, i learnt that :)
<hermes> but when someone dies here, you have to deal with life without them
<hermes> that changes you
<Zainy> but i also learnt to fear pain so much more than i used to
<hermes> makes you work life differently
<hermes> yes that can happen
<hermes> it is just that you have not had enough of the fun of life to balance the loss
<Zainy> oh?
<hermes> sure, if you are constantly experiencing pain and loss
<Zainy> i thought those events were to remind me of who i really am. and that life isn't a game
<Zainy> that nothing is "ours"
<hermes> then you lose the quality of life that creates it
<Zainy> it was humbling
<hermes> the fun and carefree quality of living
<hermes> yes those are good lessons
<hermes> but the lighter side of living is important as well
<hermes> you create from the light as well as the darkness
<hermes> sure physical reality is no game,but it does not have to be hard all the time
<hermes> it is not supposed to be
<hermes> there needs to be balance
<Zainy> so. you think next year will probably be nicer than the last 4 i've had? :)
<hermes> you have to make it that way
<Zainy> i try
<hermes> you have to remember that life needs balance
<hermes> you have to let go of the pain you have felt and are feeling
<hermes> know that it has shaped you into someone new
<hermes> then move on
<hermes> to a more lighter kind of life, one filled with more joy
<hermes> start by looking for things in your past or even present that make you happy
<hermes> happy^
<hermes> try to keep those things in mind
<hermes> especially when you are feeling down
<Zainy> i'm living in the present right now, which really helps me a lot with grief
<Zainy> and it helps me realize when i'm happy
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<hermes> laughter is wonderful for helping out of a depression
<orph> good day :)
<Zainy> i never thought i could live through what i've experienced
<hermes> watch real funny movies
<hermes> or read real funny books
<hermes> laughter releases chemicals that can help
<hermes> with grief
<Zainy> and i haven't had any help or company or support, so i guess i've come a long way
<Zainy> it's been a long time since i've felt relief, but for some reason, every summer, i begin to suspect that something will come and take it away from me
<Zainy> i'd like something to knock some sense into me...
<Zainy> but it seems that this fear is keeping me on my toes- which is why i asked about real/fake pain
<hermes> sure, make a fist, knock the side of your head while saying "wake up!"
<Zainy> i was wondering if my pain is real or fake. should i totally ignore it and revel in my peace?
<hermes> the pain of loss
<hermes> that pain is fake
<hermes> because it has passed
<Zainy> really?
<hermes> unless they just passed on
<hermes> sure
<hermes> people hold on to pain longer than they need to
<hermes> pain like fear
<hermes> mobilizes you to create change
<hermes> in your case
<hermes> the pain of loss
<hermes> made you go on
<hermes> to live life without these people
<hermes> once that has done its job and you are living well on your own
<hermes> you do not need that pain anymore
<hermes> but most people hold on to it
<Zainy> no, i never need pain as far as i'm concerned :)
<hermes> well
<hermes> grief is a form of pain
<hermes> it certainly has discomfort in it
<Zainy> i would love to switch off those things at will
<hermes> holding on to grief is like leaving a splinter in you when you can just pluck it out
<Zainy> i don't think i'm holding on- and i don't think i'm feeling pain
<Zainy> i'm just apprehensive it should happen again
<hermes> it may
<Zainy> and right now, i'm experiencing a lot of fatigue
<Zainy> i'm so TIRED, i don't even have the energy for vacation
<hermes> but you can't let the fear of something that has not happened cripple you
<hermes> what are you doing to get some rest
<Zainy> i guess time will make me forget the fear
<Zainy> i don't quite know how to "rest"
<Zainy> i can rest physically
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<Zainy> and i can stay focused on the present for my peace of mind
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<Zainy> and i don't feel any turmoil
<Zainy> but i also don't feel any energy, any desire for anything,
<hermes> well it is normal to just do nothing after such periods of loss
<Zainy> i feel so different to who i was..
<Zainy> is a year not long enough?
<Zainy> have i not been stagnant long enough?
<hermes> take 5 if you need it
<hermes> there is no one holding a stick to you but yourself
<hermes> the fact that it is bothering you tells me you are close to coming out of it
<hermes> but not there yet
<hermes> the first step to coming out of this slumber is realizing that you are in it
<Zainy> i feel some times that i need a lot of solitude and quiet. i feel i need to recharge
<Zainy> and then when i feel i could handle crowds and events, i quickly fizzle out
<hermes> its a start
<Zainy> i need to retreat soon and recharge and it takes ages
<Zainy> people are impatient and they don't like it
<hermes> too bad for them
<Zainy> they don't like the change and they make fun how i act like their grandparents
<Zainy> i suppose
<hermes> where you are now will not be where you will be in the future
<hermes> future
<hermes> you are still changing
<hermes> as you say, you are recharging
<hermes> but you are also changing from who you were to someone new
<hermes> these things take time
<Zainy> so this is just transition.. it's not quite me ? :)
<hermes> yes, you are still changing
<hermes> you have had this great experience which has brought you to here
<hermes> but you have to go a bit further to be the new person you will become
<Zainy> that's always the case, right?
<hermes> yes
<hermes> you have to give up the bits of you that are dying
<hermes> which is where you are now
<hermes> they cannot survive in the new you
<hermes> this takes time
<hermes> you let go slowly
<Zainy> the sociable part is dying! :) hahaha!
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<hermes> but you have let go of so much already
<hermes> now you are empty
<hermes> and you must fill these empty places with new things
<hermes> this is what makes create the final change in yourself
<hermes> to the new you
<hermes> you always make room first for the new bits by discarding the old
<hermes> for a time there is a void
<hermes> you have these energy holes
<hermes> that you have to fill
<hermes> with something new
<hermes> you will start to fill them soon
<hermes> because you are realizing they are there
<Zainy> my heart used to feel empty, but it feels very full now.. and it's filled with love
<Zainy> i just don't know why i feel limp
<hermes> all the parts are not filled yet
<Zainy> where are those parts?
<Zainy> they siblings i've lost are still here
<Zainy> i mean..
<Zainy> they died, but there's a good side to it
<Zainy> our relationship still continues, but in a very different way
<Zainy> they haven't let go,
<Zainy> if they were alive, they wouldn't have ever been able to help me in the ways they do now, or teach me the things they have taught me from where they are
<Zainy> which i deeply appreciate
<Zainy> for the first 6 months, all my social life was basically in my sleep!
<Zainy> it was with them and those in their company
<Zainy> very uplifting and energizing
<Zainy> i think the trouble is it made me want to spend all my time asleep :)
<Zainy> i don't of course, i have to go to work, etc
<Zainy> and i've made new friends
<Zainy> but as you know, people come and go. they don't stay
<Zainy> and i guess i'm too tired to cope with that. i've always been the type that gets attached easily
<hermes> a year is not a long time to grieve
<Zainy> i see
<hermes> it sounds like you have traveled a great deal in a short amount of time
<hermes> you just expect more from yourself
<hermes> loosing one person close to you is enough to cause change
<hermes> losing 3 is great change
<hermes> i think you are doing well
<Zainy> thank you. from you, that's very encouraging
<hermes> forget what others thing
<hermes> thing=think
<hermes> they are not dealing with the loss
<hermes> you have to do this in your own time, not theirs
<hermes> let them walk a mile in your shoes as they say
<hermes> take the time you need to heal
<Zainy> God spare them
<hermes> :)
<Zainy> you're right, i owe myself that much respect
<Zainy> SO.. :) i look forward to getting my energy back. i expect next summer will be a lot better!
<hermes> yes i think so too
<hermes> sooner actually
<hermes> by Christmas
<Zainy> i was worried that one whole year was a long time
<Zainy> :) you're sweet
<Zainy> i feel like a beached whale right now
<Zainy> Xmas is soon!
<hermes> i know
<hermes> but you will see changes by then
<hermes> start to
<hermes> you are almost there
<hermes> i see a long dark tunnel
<Zainy> its funny how time can be so SLOW and so fast at the same time
<hermes> with you walking down it
<hermes> but there is a pin point of light in front of you now
<hermes> you may not see it yet
<hermes> but it is there
<Zainy> i see it :)
<hermes> there you go
<Zainy> i always see light, thank goodness
<hermes> it is not far
<Zainy> thanks to the first loss,
<hermes> by Christmas you will know that it is more than a pin point of light
<Zainy> but i admit it was overwhelming to get the losses consecutively
<Zainy> so i'm marking my calendar for xmas- that is when i wont be afraid of further loss anymore
<Zainy> even though it's a high probability :)
<Zainy> thanks, hermes :) have a nice day
<hermes> yes you too
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<hermes> hi orph
<orph> hey ( :
<orph> I was wondering...
<orph> what do you think about internet and seeing it as a
<orph> well
<orph> conscious thing
<orph> like
<orph> how it connects people
<orph> in a way that in our brains, tiny pieces are connected
<orph> if an alien life form would scan the earth, the largest consciousness network would have to be the internet
<orph> right?
<hermes> yes i think it has a shared consciousness
<hermes> everyone is linked a bit by it
<hermes> everyone contributes to its structure
<orph> well, not too long ago, I read the composition changed a bit
<orph> erotic content is no longer the largest past of the internet anymore ^^
<orph> wonder what is going on in peoples mind to reflect that
<orph> minds*
<hermes> more refinement
<hermes> i suspect
<hermes> using it for higher purposes
<orph> I wish there was a way to keep it clean and tidy
<orph> browsing for spiritual websites for instance, well, there is a lot of curious stuff there
<orph> some is nice and diverse
<orph> some of it is just junk ^^
<hermes> yea, you get that because it is so open
<hermes> which is a good thing
<hermes> as it encourages growth
<hermes> but with it you have to deal with the junk
<orph> hmm
<orph> there is a discussion about internet games now
<orph> see it on tv a lot
<orph> whether the money there can be called real
<orph> taxed ^^
<orph> whether a theft online should be fined in real life
<orph> or not
<orph> things are starting to blend
<orph> people get online avatars and start liking the digital self better then the physical one
<hermes> it is another level of reality if you think of it
<hermes> it is even nonphysical in nature
<hermes> because there is no body to say
<hermes> you are really just energy
<orph> yea
<hermes> I find it very encouraging because in a way it helps people to understand how things can exist without being tangible
<orph> we seem to be pushing it that way
<orph> yea
<orph> like money too
<hermes> yes
<orph> mostly just digits in banks now
<orph> less coins
<orph> and less trade
<hermes> consciousness always evolves upward
<hermes> toward the nonphysical
<hermes> the internet is a natural step in that process
<orph> what do you think could follow on it?
<hermes> moving of matter from one place to the next
<hermes> that i think will be the natural result of the internet
<hermes> people will soon
<hermes> want to move more than just bits
<hermes> and data
<hermes> but things
<orph> reorganizing of reality rather then simulating it in vr?
<hermes> yes
<hermes> if they can understand how to manipulate energy on the internet
<hermes> the next step is to do that with matter
<hermes> once you realize everything is energy
<hermes> the door opens to these things
<hermes> its years away
<hermes> but i think that is where it will lead
<hermes> then there will be this blurring between nonphysical and physical
<hermes> i believe
<hermes> it will start with the computer
<hermes> they will build a computer that exists in more than one dimension
<hermes> they will do this because
<hermes> they will hit a threshold where they cannot do computations any faster
<orph> *nods
<hermes> in time and space
<hermes> then they will create a computer that does the computations outside time and space
<hermes> this makes the answer just seem to appear
<hermes> in the physical part of the computer
<hermes> that will open the door to manipulating matter
<hermes> and because of the internet
<hermes> the internet makes the unreal real
<hermes> breaks the barrier in the mind between real and fantasy
<hermes> physical and nonphysical
<orph> all the instant messaging, like this talk, it should make people more telepathic?
<orph> or maybe more telepathically lazy?
<hermes> yes
<hermes> i think it helps telepathy
<hermes> you get connected to the person with their energy to yours
<hermes> long after the IM is gone
<hermes> i talk with students like you long after the workshop
<hermes> the buzzing is constantly going in the head
<hermes> most people are unaware of it i suspect
<orph> I heard it's not uncommon for students to see their teacher in dreams the following day ( :
<hermes> yes
<hermes> i do that too
<hermes> teach them at night
<hermes> in the nonphysical plane
<hermes> i often do not know who they are
<orph> do you consciously do that?
<hermes> mostly
<hermes> not completely
<hermes> usually, if both of us remember it, we remember different parts of it
<hermes> sometimes i lose it
<hermes> i the morning
<hermes> because i get up too quickly
<orph> maybe we can make recordings of those classes too, with a quantum computer webcam ^^
<hermes> yes
<hermes> that would be great
<orph> if we can construct enough storage space, and just record everything...
<orph> that would be a second akashic record then
<hermes> good thinking
<orph> well, human technology can do such interesting things already
<orph> lol
<hermes> yes amazing times we are on
<hermes> on=in
<orph> probably that is why there are so many of us here right now ^^
<hermes> if you had to incarnate this is the prime time to do it
<hermes> souls have lined up for 50,000 years for this time in human history
<hermes> no one realizes the great gift it is to be here now
<hermes> with the energies hitting the earth for the next 1000 years
<hermes> a soul can evolve hundreds of lifetimes in one
<orph> a friend of mine who can channel spirit guides heard that in the astral, they especially enjoyed the 17th century, much change towards freedom of thinking and stuff like that
<hermes> this was not possible 100 years earlier
<hermes> the greatest concentration of energy is around 2012
<hermes> yea each era has their purpose
<orph> do you think there will be a few days of total darkness around 2012?
<hermes> no
<hermes> it is just a target date where the energy is most concentrated
<orph> what about a pole shift? ^^
<hermes> the earth is passing through a special part of the universe
<hermes> i do not think we will see that
<hermes> if it does shift it will take a long time to do it
<orph> I just wonder whether there will be something noticeable to see, or whether it will just be the turning point
<orph> from where on things really started going well for all
<hermes> i feel, the year will come and go unnoticed
<hermes> but history will mark it as the point where humanity grew up
<orph> maybe looking back on it
<hermes> yes
<hermes> that is what i mean
<hermes> looking back at what happens after
<hermes> over 100 years
<hermes> it is easy to see then
<hermes> but during the time
<hermes> you will really not notice 2012 from 2011 or 2013
<hermes> its hard to see the painting when you are a part of it
<hermes> ok, i have to leave now
<hermes> but it was a good chat
<orph> ok
<hermes> I am not sure if i will be here next week or iris.
<hermes> I will see what she wants to do
<hermes> but I will post it on the website
<orph> ok ( :
<hermes> iris was supposed to be here today but she could not make it
<hermes> take care
<orph> I'll keep on this line of thought for a while today, see you next week though
<orph> or later
<hermes> bye attuned, gamble
<orph> bye ( :
Session Close: Thu Jul 19 18:18:59 2007
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