tree of life diagrams; Authors Crowley and Regardie; evolving spiritually; crystal meditation; meditation while pregnant; using various stones with meditation; types of crystals; meditation and OBE
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© copyright 1995 - 2021 by Tom DeLiso
Session Start: Thu Jun 14 15:32:02 2007
Session Ident: #energyworks
* Now talking in #energyworks
* Topic is 'Workshop on Thursday'
* Set by email@example.com on Mon Jun 04 16:11:50
Join MIKAL (~jirc@S0106001302a74d2a.ca.shawcable.net)
Join iris (~firstname.lastname@example.org)
<iris> Hi everyone!
Join electra (-email@example.com)
<electra> sorry I'm late yet again!
<iris> no problem we haven't started yet
<iris> just got on myself
<electra> oh good
<electra> I got carried away looking for something
<iris> it happens
<electra> there's a diagram of the Tree of life and the chakras in one of Regardie's books
<electra> The writing is so faint that I can't recognize some of the words
<electra> I'm trying to find a more lucid copy
<iris> when you mentioned it I thought I might like to check it out
<electra> do you know of one, maybe in another book
<iris> yes, my favorite is a small book - trying to remember the name
<electra> its not the one about healing is it?
<electra> the Art of True Healing it's called
<electra> anyway, so far I haven't had much luck
<iris> no that's not it - either I'll remember (I'm terrible with names) or I'll find it later and let you know
<electra> Actually that picture was by Crowley and I don't know if it's his own work or if he got it from someone else
<electra> I guess there were similar pictures done by others over the centuries
<iris> I think it probably varies with the needs of the population and time
<electra> yes exactly
<electra> and also what is deemed to be suitable to be in the public domain
<iris> of course :)
<iris> there is no teacher like experience though
<electra> I haven't read any books by Crowley but I understand they are quite heavy going
<iris> and traveling the Tree yourself is how you will really come to know it
<electra> much more difficult to understand that Regardie and he can be quite testing at times
<iris> yes it is difficult and not quite my style
<electra> yes - I'm reading to amplify my own personal meditations and Regardie makes it very clear how important personal work is
<iris> but for the times I guess it was appropriate
<electra> he is very keen on self analysis
<iris> well this is a personal journey
<electra> I don't think there was much self analysis in Crowley
<electra> yes - I'm not sure if that was Crowley's view
<electra> he seems very interested in the outer vehicle
<iris> Crowley always seems to be involved in ceremony to me
<electra> you read some of Regardie's stuff and when he makes some of his own personal observations it can blow you away - really make you think
<iris> yes, the outer vehicle
<electra> yes - that is very true
<electra> anyway, I'm glad that Crowley is not standard reading LOL!
<iris> I've read crowley but not Regardie - so now you have given me some homework!
<electra> someone recommended part of one of his texts to me and when I read it it was like double dutch
<electra> I couldn't make anything of it
<electra> there was no resonance at all
<electra> but I know others just love him
<iris> I find all the writings of that time were like that
<electra> actually that reminds me of a really funny story
<electra> I have a friend in Glastonbury who is really into witchcraft
<electra> and also he likes Crowley but I don't think he's so interested in the really difficult stuff
<electra> anyway, he read about a certain oil that Crowley made and he got all the ingredients - I forget the name
<electra> apparently anyone who wore this oil would be irresistible to women
<electra> and my friend George - well he couldn't resist could he!
<electra> so apparently he went into this pub wearing huge amounts of this oil on his jacket
<electra> and he's sitting there at the bar just waiting to be invaded by all these women
<electra> and suddenly he was approached by what turned out to be a rampant 'gay' - absolutely not what George would like
<electra> in fact he can't stand them!
<electra> and this guy was really turned on to him and he couldn't get rid of him
<electra> Need I say more!
<electra> some things don't always turn out right
<iris> and so, there are many lessons there!
<electra> he should be careful what he wished for
<electra> now another interesting point there
<electra> is that I
<electra> and another friend
<electra> secretly suspect that there is a gay side to George
<electra> and since this was a magical thing
<electra> one wonders exactly what brought about that result given that this oil must have worked for Crowley
<electra> and I'm not sure there have been any complaints about this stuff!
<iris> I'm sure the scenario was set up so he could come to terms with his own feelings
<MIKAL> who said the oil even works? maybe crowley was just more magnetic and your friend isn't
<electra> well regrettably that didn't happen
<electra> My friend George is a really spiritual person on the inside
<MIKAL> crowley probably scored oil or no
<iris> very good point Mikal
<electra> but he cannot come to terms with that
<electra> yes - that is very true
<electra> actually no
<electra> have you seen pictures of him
<electra> I saw some today - he really does look like a beast
<MIKAL> i don't judge people by how they look
<electra> but apparently some women do go for that
<electra> oh no!
<electra> me neither
<electra> just check out the vibration that goes with the look
<iris> and perhaps what emanates from the inside is the appeal
<electra> that's what I meant
<electra> well not for me!
<iris> ah, one just needs to read the beauty and the beast story
<electra> yes - but that was a nice beast
<electra> looking for love and beauty and companionship
<iris> perhaps crowley was also?
<MIKAL> crowley was into theatre, he wasn't a beast, he liked to mess with people's heads
<electra> I can't remember the story but wasn't he cursed
<electra> and he had to have someone to love him before he became a prince again
<electra> I think that is a great insight
<electra> I never thought of it like that and I'm sure you're right
<electra> crowley had a terrible upbringing
<iris> yes, that was the story
<electra> and it explains a lot about him
<electra> he never came to terms with his awful past
<electra> a lot of people messed with him and I guess messing with other people and driving them mad was his way of compensating for that
<electra> that's why the world is as it is and why ppl are so unhappy and make others unhappy
<electra> we aren't taught to do the inner work so everything comes out the wrong way
<iris> well we look for answers through others - they are really inside us
<electra> hermes often talks about past selves as well as future selves
<electra> and Regardie talks a lot about childhood experiences in relation to psychotherapy
<iris> because we come into this world with baggage
<electra> yes - and then we add to that
<electra> somehow we have to get rid of that without 'throwing the baby out with the bath water'
<electra> you can salvage something very workable from the confusion
<iris> every scenario we face in life is there to help us work through these things
<electra> yes - so i'm finding
<iris> too many people throw the baby out because they don't understand
<iris> but the wheel keeps going round
<iris> we need to evolve
<iris> in this lifetime or the next or the next
<electra> yes - well I'd rather do it now!
<iris> we need to evolve
<iris> in this lifetime or the next or the next
<electra> yes - well I'd rather do it now!
<iris> and that means facing things and working through them
<iris> me too!
<iris> I think there are things we are meant to accomplish in each lifetime
<iris> internal things I mean
<iris> and the scenario is set up to help us get done what we need to
<iris> in order to move on
<iris> sometimes we get it and sometimes we don't
<iris> but we really only learn through experience
<electra> well that's where the inner alchemy comes in
<iris> and life is one big learning experience
<electra> well life seems to be one great big alchemical experiment
<iris> one big transformation
<electra> or distillation
<electra> since that first meditation we did with you I tend to think of it like that
<iris> and is that outlook helping you?
<iris> that's what's important
<electra> definitely - it opens a whole new way of looking at things and doing things
<electra> it's like the next step in my meditation evolution
<electra> it tied a lot of things together
<iris> and that's what matters
<electra> yes - improved my level of skill
<electra> but with that comes a lot of after effects
<electra> you have to learn to deal with those
<MIKAL> such as
<electra> well I find that if you have a good meditation -
<electra> like you feel there is a good flow of energy
<electra> good things happening
<electra> and you can feel that things are moving
<electra> then afterwards that concentration of energy will enact some kind of transformation
<electra> not necessarily an easy one either
<electra> it generates for want of a better word, a kind of karma
<electra> it may lead you to a book that makes exact sense of something that happened in your life or a question that was generated by the meditation
<electra> or you might feel totally exhausted and find a great deal of confusion welling up inside you
<electra> and then you need to sort that out - transform that on a mental level with reason and judgment
<electra> good judgment that is - follow your instincts
<electra> you'll know when you found the solution
<electra> good thoughts tend to generate good vibrations
<electra> but this stuff really works
<electra> and that's what is important
<electra> you know you have achieved something really good and worthwhile
<iris> yes! just remember cleaning house raises dust - moving out raises more
<electra> oh great analogy - I'll remember that
<electra> I'll need it LOL!
<iris> as we move to new levels, we must discard some of our old ways
<iris> so there is a bit of confusion
<electra> so this week the cat fur stayed on the floor and I cleaned up my own dust - so to speak
<electra> yes - discard old ways - discard old cat fur!
<MIKAL> well as long as you're clean
<iris> just don't discard the cat!
<electra> oh hahahaha!
<electra> well I have 6 actually so that can be quite a bit of fur
<electra> but not as bad as when I had 13!
<iris> that's quite a bunch
<MIKAL> that's a lot of cats alright
<iris> certainly is!
<electra> perhaps too much but great fun!
<electra> It's interesting that the Egyptians loved cats
<electra> they even mummified them
<iris> must be where we get our love of cats from - those of us who had egyptian lifetimes
<electra> well they are very endearing creatures so I'm not sure about that
<electra> I think we would love them anyway
<iris> with a sensitivity to life it's difficult not to love all creatures
<electra> there's something about them which makes us think of meditation and play
<electra> yes - very true
<iris> and there's a great lesson there
<iris> they spend a good deal of time "sleeping" - or in another reality but when they are here, or awake
<iris> they enjoy what is here
<iris> and so should we
<electra> it always looks to me as though they are 'practicing' the art of sleep
<electra> just like they seem to practice everything
<electra> everything they do seems to be studies
<electra> studied I mean
<iris> we lose that with all our distractions
<iris> too much noise in our heads to focus
<iris> that's why we meditate!
<electra> it's very difficult to be totally focused - totally energy centered
<electra> and directed
<iris> yes it can be
<electra> one thing I find now is that I'm much more aware of how I can go off center very quickly
<electra> lose my equilibrium
<electra> and with that you feel energy loss and see how the negativity can enter into your sphere when you really don't want that
<iris> that's because you are understanding yourself better
<iris> and you will be more sensitive to that negativity
<electra> you need to be in this self-contained bubble all the time where you keep your center centered
<iris> the truth is sometimes we actually do put a bubble of protection around ourselves
<iris> because the negativity is too great for us to deal with at the time
<electra> well I think it's a good thing
<electra> hermetically sealed, so to speak LOL!
<electra> we should not invade the space of others, and we should not let them invade ours
<electra> that is real non-violence - the practice of
<electra> if everyone kept to their own space what a difference it would make in this world
<iris> most people however, cannot discern where their space ends and another's begins
<iris> therein lies trouble
<electra> yes - I have noticed this and it's very difficult to explain to someone that in this respect we all have equal rights
<iris> I know
<electra> there is this compulsion to put 'self' first at any cost like it was some kind of a religion
<electra> it's insane
<iris> only because we are so insecure about that "self"
<electra> so until society evolves to that level of understanding I don't think we have much hope as a species of attaining the next step in evolution
<electra> oh if that self disappeared what would we do???
<electra> but that is the self we need to lose and the sooner the better
<iris> we attain the next step in our individual evolution
<electra> well hopefully yes
<iris> and new souls come here to this training ground
<electra> but ppl are always talking about the evolution of the planet and peace but they don't see how this can be done
<iris> to learn the lessons and move on
<electra> but do you think that process is going to go on indefinitely
<iris> not without change
<electra> there must come a point surely when the creation reaches a point of perfection
<iris> the earth has its own life force
<electra> or a point where all that could be learnt or experienced has been achieved
<iris> will we? or will there always be a "new" level of perfection once we reach the old one
<iris> I'm sure this life looks pretty perfect to "cave" people
<electra> well that new level might have to be on a non-physical level in order for it to take place
<electra> yes - i do see what you mean
<iris> yes, it may be the next level
<iris> once we learn all the lessons we can from physical reality
<electra> Iris - I'm all talked out - would anyone else like to take over? MIKAL?
<iris> well, we can meditate if you'd like
<electra> that would be great
<electra> sometimes there's only just so much talking you can do and then it gets a bit much
<iris> yes, I agree
<iris> did we lose MIKAL?
<electra> I don't know
<MIKAL> no sorry
<MIKAL> someone was in my bubble
<iris> it happens :)
<electra> well hope it wasn't' one of my cats LOL!
<iris> is there something else you would like to talk about? or would you like to join us in meditating?
<MIKAL> no I'll meditate
<MIKAL> so lets all settle down together
<MIKAL> maybe we'll hook up
<iris> if "it's meant to be"
<electra> hahaha - I admire your optimism LOL!
<iris> do we need to review or are we good to go
<electra> I'm good to go
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<electra> i can go now if that's ok
<MIKAL> ok ditto
<electra> right going now for 15 minutes as per usual
<iris> to all - we're off to meditate 15 minutes
<iris> kunundrum - Hi!
<iris> we're doing a 15 minute meditation
<kunundrum> oh okay
<iris> you can join us if you'd like
<iris> if not, we'll be back in 15 min
<kunundrum> ill wait =)
<iris> brb - in 15
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<iris> I'm back - hi everyone!
<iris> hi orph
<electra> Yes - I[m back too
<electra> hi orph!
<iris> hi kunundrum again
<electra> yes hi
<iris> so questions anyone? or want to share meditation experience?
<Orph> hi everyone :)
<kunundrum> hello iris...do you meditate with crystals?
<iris> yes I do
<iris> for a long time now
<kunundrum> oh good, I'm looking into crystals and want to begin meditating, i'm a beginner
<iris> oh great!
<kunundrum> i'm inexperienced, do you recommend a good site to buy them
<iris> you can start with just 3 or 4 quartz crystals
<kunundrum> oh ok, pointed towards you?
<iris> actually I am checking out a place this weekend - can you wait a few days?
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<iris> I am actually going to see and touch them but if it checks out I can send you the info
<iris> I know she ships
<iris> you will need 4 to start with
<kunundrum> should i write you an email?
<iris> good - then I'll get back to you on Sunday
<kunundrum> okay great
<iris> you will place three on the floor pointed toward you
<iris> so you are sitting in a triangle
<iris> one you can hold in your hand
<iris> that's usually good to start with
<iris> as you progress you will want to add more
<iris> but you will know when that time comes
<kunundrum> oh...ive seen some places sell chakras crystal sets, is that good fro anything
<iris> occasionally I add a different type of crystal to the mix
<iris> yes they are
<iris> if you send me the link I can look at them for you also
<kunundrum> okay when i find them, ill email it to you also
<iris> it's a wonderful experience
<kunundrum> oh i had another question but it might sound silly
<kunundrum> i'm almost 7mo pregnant and i wanted to know if babies meditate too
<iris> go ahead - there never silly unless you mean them to be
<iris> they are so much more fortunate than us - they do not have words and distractions of this reality
<iris> they can float around inside you and their existence is a meditation!
<iris> and when they are born, the reality from where they came is fresh within them
<iris> untainted by physical reality
<kunundrum> ohh okay, i see
<iris> when you meditate you are surrounding your child with good, positive energy
<iris> so they are kind of in a meditative state
<iris> and your meditating will draw good energy around you and hence around them
<iris> did I answer your question?
<kunundrum> yes thanks =)
<iris> email me at wisdomsdoor and we'll get you started
<iris> anyone else meditate besides electra?
<electra> well mikal seems to have disappeared though he was going to do it
<iris> yes mikal disappeared. Orph, you use crystals
<Orph> no, they are distractive ^^
<iris> in what way?
<Orph> I can feel their "personalities" too strongly
<iris> ah yes
<iris> do you hand select them?
<iris> clear them first?
<iris> and often?
<Orph> yea, I only pick up stones that feel interesting
<Orph> one crystal has a skull in it when its held in the right light
<iris> different types?
<Orph> very curious ^^
<Orph> but blue stones are the best :P
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<iris> blue like lapis?
<Orph> lapis lazuli, Siberian quartz...
<Orph> I can't remember all of them
<iris> they are special to me
<Orph> well, blue :)
<iris> i like the blues too
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<Orph> do you own kayanite?
<iris> a long time ago
<Orph> what did you think of how it felt?
<iris> it wasn't as powerful as my big clear quartz
<Orph> did you have a purpose for it?
<iris> no, I was just adding different things I was drawn to at the time
<iris> I had a very small piece
<iris> and so it got misplaced in a very short time
<iris> what do you think of it? perhaps I will look for one this weekend
<Orph> to me, it is very...
<Orph> well, hard to say
<Orph> it has an active energy that's for sure
<Orph> but it's just such a sharp type of stone
<Orph> not round and blunt, but pointy and sharp ^^
<iris> the crystal structure is different
<Orph> I believe it's most obvious trait is, that it just does not pick up negative energies
<Orph> it keeps itself clean
<Orph> when people hold one of your crystals, it's usually noticeable
<Orph> but not with the kayanite
<iris> you know I was going to pick up lapis this weekend but i think you just gave me a message
<kunundrum> would it be good to wear them too, like pendants
<kunundrum> or other jewelry
<Orph> sure, you select the right stone and keep it on you
<iris> does it focus on a particular chakra
<Orph> I've not seen kayanite as a pendant or jewelry item so far though
<kunundrum> i remember as a child i had a crystal quartz pendant and i loved it, but it was lost
<Orph> probably hard to work with unfortunately
<Orph> stones like to travel ^^
<iris> chakra is throat and third eye
<Orph> they fall in and out of our hands when they want to
<iris> this is very true
<iris> they are brought into your life when you need them and leave when they need to move on
<iris> I will let you know if i find the kayanite in jewelry
<Orph> I've seen loads of lapis jewelry so far, very pretty
<Orph> was it the egyptians that started it?
<iris> yes - popular with the egyptians
<Orph> they made the greatest things
<iris> knew a lot too!
<Orph> I wonder whether we will ever excavate all those predicted chambers under the sphinx and the pyramids
<Orph> and what will be in them
<Orph> if they exist :)
<iris> and if we should
<Orph> why not?
<iris> I'm not saying "not" but sometimes I wonder if we should respect what they built and not tamper with it
<iris> motives are not always pure
<iris> and capitalize on these things sometimes
<iris> without respecting them
<iris> perhaps why some things stay hidden from us - for their protection
<iris> just a thought
<Orph> we only discover what we are ready for I suppose
<iris> anyway with a good old crystal the memories are in them and we can visit through meditation
<iris> yes, we only discover what we are ready for
<Orph> what do you think about shapes in crystals?
<Orph> or colors
<iris> shapes you can detect inside them?
<Orph> when you hold the crystal in the right light
<iris> yes! those are the "hints" of what it has to share with us
<Orph> can I show you an example?
<Orph> with a bit of imagination, you may see a skull like shape, facing right
<kunundrum> is that a reflection?
<Orph> no, just a shape inside the crystal
<Orph> here's the same stone under a different light: http://schoollog.nl/uploads/persoonlijk/7187/DSCF15910.jpg
<iris> email me the links - I can't get through
<Orph> oh, ok
<kunundrum> The first image looked like a Neanderthal or ape
<electra> yes - I could see something as well but I wasn't sure if it was a skull
<electra> everyone is going to see things differently
<electra> ok - I must go
<electra> thanks for great workshop Iris
<kunundrum> bye electra
<Orph> bye :)
<electra> bye everyone - I hope you will all come next week
<electra> bye iris
<iris> bye electra
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<kunundrum> hey Iris can you us copy and paste the link to another browser
<iris> i'm trying but it won't copy
<Orph> *sent the email
<kunundrum> oh ok
<Orph> I've read stuff about Atlantean crystals which are supposed to be preprogrammed
<Orph> those would have shapes in them too
<Orph> this one comes from poland though, far away from atlantis ^^
<kunundrum> what's that mean, I've heard of programming crystals but don't really understand
<Orph> when you keep using a crystal for the same purpose, it gets more suitable for it
<Orph> it's like fine tuning them
<iris> but maybe close to atlantis at one time
<Orph> you could have a special crystal for healing
<Orph> or meditation
<Orph> or astral projection
<iris> and they store a history
<Orph> or protection
<iris> and a memory
<Orph> o, my dog just walked into the room, he wants to go for a walk outside :)
<Orph> I'll see you next time
<Orph> bye bye
<iris> thanx bye
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<kunundrum> Hey iris, does meditating help you do OBE
<iris> yes it does
<kunundrum> so you can meditate and then go into it
<kunundrum> oh ok
<iris> some people seem to be more predisposed to it than others
<kunundrum> do you believe in Chi
<iris> oh yes
<kunundrum> i've heard meditating can strengthen chi
<iris> most definitely
<iris> it does
<kunundrum> and some people can do things like light things on fire, lol
<kunundrum> or have super strength
<kunundrum> if true, it must take dedication and time to develop it
<iris> it takes time and discipline
<iris> we can do anything
<iris> only our beliefs stop us
<kunundrum> it seems like western society in general is far behind spiritually that people from the east, generally speaking though
<iris> I think so
<iris> we came to rely on external forces rather than develop the internal ones
<kunundrum> yes i feel that too
<kunundrum> its like modern society had dulled and repressed that kind of clarity and open mindedness
<kunundrum> its sad
<iris> and that's what meditation helps us do - refocus inward and develop
<kunundrum> when did you start
<iris> about 15 years ago
<kunundrum> how did you get introduced to it?
<iris> although I was always interested I didn't make that commitment to it until then
<iris> I guess it was my time because Hermes appeared
<iris> and I was studying martial arts
<iris> at the time
<iris> so it just flowed from one disipline to the other
<kunundrum> whoa heh
<iris> have you had experience with this stuff?
<kunundrum> i've been raised in a christian family and many ideals followed by our church conflict with these ideals
<kunundrum> but right now i don't like to label myself
<iris> oh I know - same here
<kunundrum> its limits me i think
<kunundrum> my bf introduced me to OBE and i would like to experience it too
<iris> I found that in time this helped me to understand a lot of my previous beliefs better
<kunundrum> so did you abandon them
<iris> no, I've learned to dissect them!
<iris> in other words, separate the truth from what the establishment would like us to believe
<kunundrum> oh yeah
<iris> my faith is deeper, richer, fuller than ever
<iris> and meditation will open that path for you
<kunundrum> how many times a week do you meditate
<kunundrum> and for how long
<iris> sometimes 3 times a day - sometimes 3 x a week - sometimes 3 x a month!
<iris> and anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour
<iris> in the beginning I meditated 3 x a week.
<kunundrum> wow, so its like how ever you feel you need to
<iris> yes, and you get to know that after you've been doing it a while
<iris> now I feel like my whole life is a meditation!
<iris> it is wonderful!
<iris> you just have to stick with it whenever you can
<kunundrum> where do you do it
<iris> most times in my room
<iris> at the beach is great
<kunundrum> on the floor?
<iris> but you can sit on a pillow or something comfortable
<iris> in a garden is very nice too
<iris> but the quietest place for me is right in my room
<kunundrum> hmm, how do you deal with noise any
<iris> I try to select times I know will be quiet. You can also play soft music so you don't notice outside noise
<iris> I don't notice the noise anymore
<kunundrum> oh ok
<iris> in the beginning you just need a comfortable place where you can be alone for 15 minutes or so
<iris> or you can meditate with your boyfriend if he's into it
<kunundrum> lol okay
<kunundrum> he wants to start too with crystals
<kunundrum> he's looking for crystals that can make it easier to do OBE
<iris> clear quartz
<iris> that's what I was going to look for for you
<kunundrum> natural, tumbled or polished?
<iris> natural and clear
<iris> they won't be entirely clear but at least the tips
<iris> not broken
<iris> they are hexagonal - you don't want any chunks out of the sides!
<kunundrum> oh okay i think i saw that in hermes' book
<iris> email me with the ones you are looking at and I will let you know what I find
<kunundrum> about meditating with quartz
<iris> by Sunday we have something on the way!
<iris> yes, quartz is the best to start with
<iris> later you can add other things
<iris> well, it's getting late and I have to go
<kunundrum> okay one last questions plz
<kunundrum> someone i know recommended Herkimer diamond and Moldavia
<kunundrum> would you recommend those
<kunundrum> for OBE
<iris> we actually mined our own Herkimer in NY and I meditated for years with both the Herkimer and Moldavia
<iris> moldavia is supposed to have formed from meteor - I love them both
<iris> I still meditate with them
<iris> yes - good for you but not at first
<iris> 4 quartz first
<kunundrum> ill email you with other inquisitive questions i might have lol then
<iris> then you can substitute a jerkier and see if you feel a deference
<iris> then add the moldavia
<iris> get the feel for just quartz first
<iris> then as you add you'll know them better
<iris> what they feel like - what they help you with
<iris> it's great fun!
<kunundrum> okay thanks for everything =)
<iris> thank you for giving me the opportunity to share!
<kunundrum> okay take care
<iris> i look forward to hearing from you with lots of questions!
* kunundrum has quit IRC ("Bye bye")
* iris has quit IRC ("Bye bye")
Session Close: Thu Jun 21 19:52:42 2007