August 5, 2004 (workshop log file)

the physical universe looking at it from the outside; physical reality's group consciousness nature; the nature of the nonphysical planes; home is where you are; having fun; The Holy Guardian Angel; raising the dead; advanced pre-ascension abilities; hypnosis, the ego, the mind;

August 5, 2004 (workshop log file)

Session Start: Thu Aug 05 16:21:02 2004
Session Ident: #energyworks
* Now talking in #energyworks
* Topic is 'Next Workshop: Check wisdomsdoor.com for info. '
* Set by jsn!~jsn@hoas-50dd08fd.hoasnet.inet.fi on Tue Aug 03 18:14:09
* jsn changes topic to 'Next Workshop: '
<jsn> hi Hermestr
<Hermestr> hi there
<LogoRat> hello hermes and welcome to a new edition to IRC life
<Hermestr> you are not new to IRC
<LogoRat> lol
<Hermestr> you have been here before
<LogoRat> yes i have
<LogoRat> i have some questions ready for you
<Hermestr> sure
<LogoRat> How is the physical viewed from the outside?, is it a plane or just a spacesuit
<Hermestr> well that depends where you look from. If you are looking from the mental plane then it looks quite flat and without substance
<Hermestr> if you look from the sprit plane it is like looking at a dream
<LogoRat> k
<Hermestr> it is not easy to define
<Hermestr> from a physical perspective
<Hermestr> the physical universe is a sphere
<Hermestr> what I mean is
<Hermestr> if you travel outside the boundaries of the universe it can be seen as a sphere hanging in out of time space
<LogoRat> oki
<Hermestr> behind that sphere is this tremendous energy vortex
<Hermestr> in the upper mental plane you can hold the planets in your hand
<Hermestr> they look like flat images
<LogoRat> mmm
<Hermestr> then if you go into these images
<Hermestr> you descend into physical reality and will eventually return to your body
<ian_> hello
<LogoRat> and have to go through birth every time
<ian_> Logo, hermes, ltns
<LogoRat> hi ian
<Hermestr> no, i am just talking about from an out of body perspective
<ian_> jsn ;)
<LogoRat> oki
<Hermestr> because you asked what it was like from the outside looking in
<LogoRat> mmm
<LogoRat> i understand
<Hermestr> as you get closer to the physical plane it resembles more like what it appears to be.
<ian_> out of body experiences are outside of our physical idea of time/space too no?
<Hermestr> as you get further from it, it appears more abstract
<ian_> "where" are they in this context?
<Hermestr> yes OBE's happen outside the usual time-space
<Hermestr> it is the physical body that slows confines consciousness to the constraints of time and space
<Hermestr> when you are free of the body these constraints no longer apply.
<LogoRat> most people talk about the physical as a beginning point for spiritual beings, but if there is no beginning nor end, then physical reality is just like a room of ideas that you play in, is it not
<Hermestr> true, there is no beginning or end to these reality planes
<Hermestr> no one comes before another
<Hermestr> they lay on top of each other like wire meshes
<ian_> ok, I have had several experiences that another has told me have been significant... OBEs of me sitting on a monolith, or at a beach. another (a student of yours actually) told me these are certain places, and that there are tests (like at the beach) - but why can I not perceive this context? why must it be someone else who has experienced it telling me?
<LogoRat> k
<Hermestr> the only difference between the meshes is the frequency they are on.
<LogoRat> k
<ian_> because the experiences were really great, and came completely from within, but i am having trouble progressing
<ian_> i can't focus well enough, or something I suppose... could be all my problem
<Hermestr> well these experiences can take time to develop
<Hermestr> some people are quicker than others
<ian_> yeah, I was told i was progressing extremely quickly
<ian_> and i think i was just head-nodding a lot and taking a lot of stuff for face value, but not quite as far as the other person thought
<ian_> because I had/have a very open mind on the subject
<ian_> i suppose the suggested method for this is to do a lot of energy exercise
<ian_> but instead of doing those practices nightly i have been doing martial arts... moving meditation.. i suppose somehow i could even combine the two.
<Hermestr> the beach and the towers are two points along the way of the Tree of Life, yes they are places where you are tested or obtain wisdom to move deeper into the tree of life.
<ian_> I guess me not perceiving the tests themselves means I'm not ready to pass
<Hermestr> yes the energy work in martial arts will help you
<ian_> and then i will perceive it one day and it will happen
<Hermestr> are you looking for the tests?
<ian_> and i will probably pass, all in that minute slice of 'time'
<Hermestr> if you do not look you will not find
<ian_> yes
<ian_> everything kind of fades out though
<Hermestr> well if you are on the beach walk away from the water
<ian_> i can't maintain awareness 'over there' long enough, i think.. perhaps lack of energy
<Hermestr> and look for someone to approach you.
<ian_> oh
<ian_> i was looking to the water
<ian_> will do..
<ian_> quite a confusing place for someone used to physical-only existance.. need to get my feet wet more methinks
<Hermestr> it is different than physical reality
<ian_> as soon as I grasp, it slips beneath my fingers and it is gone
<Hermestr> but that is part of the process of learning how to move in this new medium
* ian_ nods in understanding
<ian_> surely it can't be another way
<LogoRat> because the physical is so dense, might it be a meeting plane for energies that would not have the possibilities to meet up in the nonphysical becaus if their different frequencies, and because if this dense world, it it possible for entities to meet up for short periods?
<ian_> is the tree of life a Kabalah thing, is it tied to Jewish culture somehow? if so I'm curious as to which other cultures may have references to it
<Hermestr> the physical plane is a meeting place of sorts, its existence is contingent on many nonphysical beings lending their consciousness to it
<ian_> but i suppose it's hard to quantify in the first place
<ian_> interesting
<ian_> Hermestr, how are the books going? having more time to come do workshops now?
<Hermestr> the Kabalah is part of that but it predates it too. It is Hermetic in orgin, and even goes back to ancient ancient Egypt and Atlantis
<ian_> Hermestr: yes as I would assume
<ian_> i suppose Kabalah is a more modern recording then
<Hermestr> yes that is the more modern interpretation of it
<ian_> it would be interesting to see it from other vantage points (wd.com a g reat one)
<ian_> very objective, albeit confusing as heck - how do these things have perceivable names in the first place
<LogoRat> "lending their consciousness to it" , explain
<ian_> historical consensus perhaps
<ian_> ok sorry to interrupt, I would like to hear LogoRat's thread
<ian_> :)
<Hermestr> the names of the tree of life have been handed down for long time, who knows where they started
<ian_> fair enough
<Hermestr> Trees and plants for example, their consciousness comes from very immense entities that exist outside physical reality. they lend a piece of their consciousness to be a tree
<Hermestr> or a bush
<ian_> wow, that's interesting
<LogoRat> oki
<ian_> I lately have come to a conclusion on my own that plants do have a consciousness
<Hermestr> yes all things have some kind of consciousness. it is how physical reality exists.
<ian_> when trying to draw the line on what is a 'sentient being' and what is not
<ian_> in a Buddhist sense
<Hermestr> well you really can't
<Hermestr> molecules are conscious
<ian_> because a plant will lean toward the sun
<ian_> or become diseased
<LogoRat> indeed they do, record them and watch them in fastforward.. its kinda interesting... it the slow motion that makes it look non-conscious
<Hermestr> so the entire reality is conscious on many levels
<ian_> molecules themselves, no kidding. yes.. right. quantum reality
<ian_> perhaps then atoms themselves are conscious
<ian_> and subatomic, etc etc
<Hermestr> sure,
<ian_> some kind of innate quality in everything physical
<Hermestr> it is a group reality
<Hermestr> shared on many levels with many beings throughout the universe,
<ian_> here is where words fail to even convey
<ian_> quite a complex hyper-structure
<Hermestr> yes indeed
<Hermestr> physical reality is unique because as you travel outside of it, you do not find the diversity that you find here
<ian_> so in a way, us truth seekers tend to look for something very complex
<LogoRat> might there be other physical realities out there that is more complex than this one (hard question but anyway), that is for bigger entities
<ian_> when in reality (no pun intended), this is a pretty complex one
<ian_> and the rest is not so complex
<ian_> or some of 'the rest'
<Hermestr> could be logograt but I could not answer that
<LogoRat> k
<ian_> in my very limited experience with what I've been told are OBEs, it seems as this. i looked for some thing mystical, but it was nothing but a mental imprint
<ian_> it was almost like synchronized, or... vicarious imagination by some third party..
<Hermestr> well the kind of experience you have in the nonphysical plane will depend where you are when you have it.
<Hermestr> in the mental plane things are very mental
<ian_> interesting
<Hermestr> almost picture like
<ian_> right
<Hermestr> but in the etheric plane it is quite physical feeling
<ian_> wow yes
<Hermestr> in the astral plane it is like swimming in emotions and feelings
<ian_> its like the beach, i could feel the sand perfectly
<Hermestr> yep
<ian_> but most of the rest of the sensations were separate and very picture-based
<Hermestr> that is in Malkuth and is on the etheric plane
<ian_> and it was like switching into a different mode
<Hermestr> yep
<Hermestr> as you travel away from Malkuth your experiences become less physical
<ian_> less etheric, more mental?
<Hermestr> in graduations
<ian_> same thing?
<ian_> ok
<Hermestr> even the mental framework has to fall away
<ian_> so, what is being experienced is marginalized by the medium by which we perceive it.
<Hermestr> in order to pass into the plane of sprit you must leave that behind
<ian_> much like in physical reality, time/space.
<Hermestr> you can only take your spiritual spark with you
<ian_> yes... so to cultivate the ability to do this, we much raise our energy and work at it, yes/
<Hermestr> yes where you are in the nonphysical universe will determine your experiences and how you perceive them
<Hermestr> yep
<LogoRat> for me, it feels as if i do not belong here in the physical
<Hermestr> it takes time and patience to learn how to tune into these more fine realities
<ian_> a sticking point i have had is, i don't understand how all of a sudden the beach has meaning, because a teacher told me so.
<ian_> it is interesting that I must rely on a physical plane to get there
<Hermestr> LogoRat, that is just a feeling about this reality , but that can change. really your home is where you are now.
<LogoRat> obviously :)
<Hermestr> well Ian you have to start somewhere, so the first step is a very physical like place
<LogoRat> but i don’t want a home, I’m an explorer
<Hermestr> that is what I mean
<Hermestr> you are where you are home where you are exploring
<Hermestr> right now you are exploring the physical plane
<Hermestr> at night you explore the dream world
<Hermestr> both are your home
<Hermestr> home is where you are.
<Hermestr> there is power in that feeling
<LogoRat> oki
<Hermestr> it is a trap of sorts to say you do not belong in physical reality, it removes some of your power to change and effect it
<LogoRat> i don’t have to have something a home in order to change it
<Hermestr> this is an important feeling to have when traveling to other more fine dimensions
<Hermestr> its the feeling I am talking about
<LogoRat> k
<Hermestr> if you can have that feeling you can change things easier
<Hermestr> in other realities this is very important
<LogoRat> if i feel everything as my home, it will be easier to change it!?
<Hermestr> so you should try to feel like physical reality is a home,
<Hermestr> yes
<Hermestr> exactly
<LogoRat> k
<Hermestr> its a powerful reality creation secret
<LogoRat> feeling not at home is like feeling separate
<LogoRat> ?
<Hermestr> which is not no longer secret
<Hermestr> yes lograt
<LogoRat> oki :)
<Hermestr> and when you feel separate you lose your power to make changes
<Hermestr> it does not mean you cannot make changes, just that you make it harder for yourself
<LogoRat> ok
<ian_> well that makes perfect sense
<Hermestr> :)
<LogoRat> Why there must be something called work here in physical.
<ian_> its like a lonely person feeling sad and walking down the street, nobody makes contact, but if he walks carefree, all of a sudden, makes new friends
<LogoRat> true
<ian_> such a simple thing is very difficult
<Hermestr> yep, the energy is different he gives off, it empowers him
<ian_> oh the irony
<Hermestr> yes the universe is full of irony
<Hermestr> Logorat, work is just another name for where you are focused at the moment
<Hermestr> physical reality is a shared reality
<Hermestr> so it is based on sharing your talents with others
<Hermestr> hence you do work
* Darlok has joined #energyworks
<LogoRat> cleaning garbage for 50yrs
<LogoRat> nice sharing lol
<Hermestr> its still a skill you are sharing
<LogoRat> hehe
<Darlok> sup guys
<LogoRat> waste of reality experience if u ask me
<Hermestr> you think it is garbage collection is a low job but think about the amount of energy it takes to remove someone else’s waste
<Hermestr> and think about the amount of humble quality it requires
<Hermestr> these two things are very important in the universe
<Hermestr> if you are not humble you will be squashed like a fly in many realities
<LogoRat> yah sure, but still.. it is not fun to do
<Hermestr> fun is something you perceive or create
<Hermestr> because you do not think it is fun it is not a fun job
<Hermestr> Hay! I cleaned toilets for a living at one time,
<Hermestr> I made it fun
<Hermestr> anything can be enjoyable if you look at it properly
<LogoRat> yah, walk from reality to reality, doing cleaning for eternity while others ride rollercoaster’s and fly hang gliders
<Hermestr> the point is, unless you can have fun in the moment you will never have fun in the next
<ian_> yes since your perception is the only one which matters - and even constitutes your 'reality'
<ian_> if you can shape it, whatever the result is, is realer than real
<Hermestr> yes
<LogoRat> i know your point, but i just don’t agree
<ian_> it may not be real to Joe but it's all that matters to you
<ian_> well, LogoRat, you can agree it might be difficult to shape your perception to make it a good thing :)
<ian_> but you can't agree if you perceive it as fun it's not fun
<ian_> hehe
<ian_> what else constitutes it
<LogoRat> i rather have a boring life as a soldier than having a boring life as a cleaner
<Darlok> Hermes, in your book (RC2) u say that according to Hermetic tradition the guardian angel sits in the spiritual plane and awaits the day u reach it and become one with it. If that's so then isn't ur guardian angel the same thing as the monad? If not, what's the difference?
<Hermestr> the monad is beyond the spiritual plane
<Hermestr> the merger with your holy guardian angel comes way before then
<Hermestr> once you cross the abyss this Holy Guardian Angel merger occurs
<Hermestr> next you start working toward the merger with the Monad
<Hermestr> which results in ascension
<Hermestr> the Monadic energy can only reach you if your consciousness sits in the spiritual plane
<Hermestr> what I mean is the Monadic energy that heralds in ascension
<LogoRat> i personally don’t need the physical to do the things i want to do, it was just a something i did to play a game...
<Darlok> k
<LogoRat> i just figured out the coders behind the scene, and it was no longer fun to participate in the game no more
<Darlok> got it now :) thanks
<Hermestr> great Darloki
<Hermestr> drop the i ^
<Darlok> :P
<ian_> ah loki ;)
<ian_> sorry to ask a basic question, but could you give a quick definition for Monad
<Darlok> Hermes in meditation who sends the energy to u? Ascended Masters, spirit guides, guardian angels, monad??
<ian_> if you please
<Hermestr> Darlok: all of what you mention.
<Hermestr> The monad is
<Hermestr> your divine essence that exists outside time and space
<ian_> ok
<Hermestr> it is the sum total of all your lives plus all the lives in your 144 soul group
<LogoRat> might physical be as meditation for nonphysical beings ?
<Hermestr> Your Monad is too massive to be an individual in physical reality
<Hermestr> so it breaks itself up into 144 parts
<Hermestr> and these parts incarnate into the physical system
<Hermestr> then when ascension happens you merge again with all these parts of you
<Hermestr> you gain full knowledge of all these 144
<Hermestr> and are one with the Monadic self
<Darlok> Hermes when can a person start healing diseases such as CANCER oR AIDS in other people?
<LogoRat> darlok:today :)
<Hermestr> Lograt, nonphysical beings can communicate with physical people more easily in meditation,
<Darlok> lol
<Hermestr> but a nonphysical meditation does not bring you to the physical plane
<Hermestr> the give to healing increases as you get closer to ascension
<Hermestr> you start to acquire this skill in the upper mental plane
<Hermestr> it gets stronger as you are able to move higher in the spiritual levels
<Hermestr> that real powerful instant healing stuff however
<Hermestr> only happens when you are very very close to ascension
<Darlok> raising the dead as well huh?
<Hermestr> I suppose
<Hermestr> I know in the bible is says Master Jesus raised the dead
<Hermestr> but in reality these people were in very deep comas, very close to death
<Hermestr> once death occurs the spirit leaves the body
<LogoRat> that would be stupid lol, someone that finds it nice to die gets pulled back by some nutcase that feels like healing his rotten corps lol
<ian_> 144
<Hermestr> the body starts to decay
<ian_> what is the significance?
<Darlok> lol logorat
<Hermestr> you would have to bring them back to the body within a couple hours
<ian_> is there also a significance to its square root
<ian_> or is it merely historical
<Darlok> okay Hermes, got it
<LogoRat> while they are still in the etheric plane
* Retrieving #energyworks info...
<Hermestr> well while the body is still fresh
<LogoRat> hmmmm
<Hermestr> even the greatest of sages can only do so much for a decaying body
<Darlok> Hermes have u ever heard of a person called SAI BABA?
<Hermestr> sure
<Hermestr> he is well known in spiritual circles
<Darlok> is he a greater avatar than Jesus? :)
<Hermestr> I'm not sure you can put a value on something like that
<Hermestr> measure one against another
<Hermestr> it just does not seem right
<Hermestr> in truth
<Hermestr> no one is greater than other person
<LogoRat> Darlok: you might try playing hos role in your next physical life
<Hermestr> everyone is equal
<Hermestr> but I do understand what you are asking
<LogoRat> play the life of the Jesus character
<Hermestr> when you near ascension you gain all these powers and abilities
<Hermestr> it is a natural part of the ascension process
<Darlok> Logorat maybe i will :) hehe
<LogoRat> hehe
<Darlok> okay Hermes
<LogoRat> i gotta go, it was nice seeing you back hermes
<Darlok> see ya Logo
<LogoRat> great -work- from your part
<LogoRat> i bow
<Hermestr> see you later logorat
* ian_ bows respectfully to logo
<ian_> good seeing you again dude
<ian_> hehe
<LogoRat> :)
* LogoRat has left #energyworks
<ian_> thanks hermes, your comments are quite helpful, i lost touch with with the only other person qualified to ask questions
<ian_> so i been in a rut recently, it helps to contextualize you know
<Hermestr> glad to hle[
<Hermestr> help
<ian_> wish i could return the favor, but i guess becoming a better person is the least i can do :)
<ian_> or .. the most
<Hermestr> yes just do that
<Hermestr> one day you will help someone else with what you know
<ian_> that's my goal
<ian_> seems a bit .. cyclic now in retrospect
<ian_> recursing
<ian_> ironic thing is i got the greatest transmissions of knowledge from long-dead people
<Hermestr> wow
<ian_> i mean, by reading what has been attributed to them
<Hermestr> ah i see
<Hermestr> i thought for moment you were doing some channeling
<ian_> i probably should be
<ian_> dont think i have the capacity
<Hermestr> well it is not a requirement of the spiritualizing process
<ian_> well like from Jesus and famous zen masters
<ian_> especially the latter, because even across translations and time barriers the message is still conveyed
<ian_> and in zen its all about shaking the false foundations
<ian_> shocking you out of the preconceived
<ian_> very helpful, i got a nice light bulb a month or so ago
<ian_> :D
<ian_> all of a sudden a bunch of parables make sense
<ian_> a favorite: "form is emptiness, emptiness is form"
<Hermestr> yea that is how it works, you do some spiritual work and lay the groundwork then all of a sudden one day it all registers.
<ian_> yea
<ian_> say, i have a question for you... how does hypnotic regression work
<ian_> like i read this book about where some chick did hypnosis on some other very random person, and supposedly the teacher of Jesus was speaking through her (as she later concluded)
<ian_> very... hard to believe stuff
<Hermestr> the ego is bypassed in the mind so other areas can be reached
<Hermestr> sometimes it can be past lives
<ian_> i see, that makes a lot of sense, it is the ego-self which wouldn't permit anything to cross through
<ian_> 'that’s rubbish'
<Hermestr> some people will channel other people, but only because they possess this capability on some level
<Hermestr> yea the ego filters all that stuff out
<ian_> its exactly that which i had to extinguish in order to even compute
<Hermestr> yes at some point you realize that to let these spiritual truths through you have to gently push the ego aside
<Hermestr> and the more you do this the easier it gets
<ian_> lately i realized the possibility of sound healing. a few years ago i had some weird impromptu fascination with Reiki as well. are these mediums easier than using the mind alone?
<ian_> im stumbling to even form a coherent question
<Hermestr> you have to go with whatever is easier for you
<ian_> but Reiki for ex supposedly works without time and space, which i can understand, accepting some basic things
<Hermestr> i have known some very good healers that used drums to heal
<Hermestr> they work just as well as Reiki
<ian_> fair enough
<ian_> come to think, I guess whatever i doubt myself in the least is the most viable medium.
<ian_> doubting your powers only lends power to your doubts, as someone coined to me recently
<ian_> hehe
<Hermestr> yep
<Hermestr> ok I am going to wrap it up here
<Hermestr> good talking with everyone
<ian_> a pleasure as always
<Hermestr> thanks for coming and will see you all next week
<ian_> best wishes
* ian_ has left #energyworks (ian_ )
Session Close: Thu Aug 05 17:53:59 2004