Enlightenment; duality and unity, the nature of reality; the significance of numbers 7,6
July 20, 2004 (workshop log file)

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Session Start: Tue Jul 20 12:38:10 2004
Session Ident: #energyworks
* Now talking in #energyworks
* Topic is 'Welcome to Energyworks!'
* Set by Hermestr! on Tue Jul 20 11:44:56
<Hermestr> l
* gnosis has joined #energyworks
<gnosis> hermes?
<Hermestr> howdy
<Hermestr> how are you doing?
<gnosis> not bad
<gnosis> how are you?
<gnosis> been gone awhile? :)
<Hermestr> yes been working on the reference guide
<Hermestr> things are going well here
<gnosis> excellent
<Hermestr> yes the books take so much time and effort but it is well worth it
<gnosis> true
<gnosis> have you found enlightenment, hermes?
<Hermestr> well that depends on what you mean by enlightenment, it means different things for different people
<gnosis> yes, I mean freedom of mind, to actually travel nearly at will to any world.
<gnosis> ...astral, lucid, void, etc
<Hermestr> i can do that in out of body states
<gnosis> err plane is a better description
<gnosis> but can you reach an out of body state pretty much anytime?
<Hermestr> so i guess then yes i have reached enlightenment, in the way you use it
<Hermestr> well usually at night or in meditation
<gnosis> yeah
<Hermestr> that wasone of the first skills i developed
<Hermestr> from there i made contact with masters and spiritual teachers that helped me to understand reality better
<Hermestr> and myself of course
<gnosis> actually, I think enlightenment is a moment to moment expertise and experience of one's entire self.
<gnosis> yes
<Hermestr> yea, i tend to see enlightenment as the point at which you realize there is more to physical existence and then from then on you seek to understand spirituality and yourself better
<Hermestr> however some people consider enlightenment the point at which some kind of spiritual expertise is reached
<Hermestr> the term is so vague that it is hard to say what it really means.
<gnosis> yeah, i tend to think of it as the point at which you have a control or mastery of your existence moment-to-moment.
<Hermestr> now i'm sure in the spiritual circles and newsgroups on the matter they know exactly what they mean by it
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<gnosis> You have the power (for the most part) to always do the things that are important to you.
<Hermestr> i would like to think that i have reached that point
<Hermestr> though there are areas of my life that still need some more tweaking
<gnosis> cool :)
<Hermestr> yes i can pretty much create what i need and want.
<Hermestr> you reach that point a bit at at time, it does not happen in a moment or a flash
<gnosis> yes
<gnosis> it takes lots of practice
<Hermestr> after much work and effort you look back and see the road you came on to be where you are now.
<Hermestr> yes it does, lots of practice and patience
<Hermestr> i've been at it for 20 years now
<Hermestr> so keep at it
<Hermestr> of course it is a life long thing that never stops
<gnosis> yeah
<Hermestr> the visiting of other dimensions and planets is really secondary to what these places teach you about yourself. These meditative or nonphysical experiences are very powerful and change you in ways you do not expect.
<gnosis> that wouldn't surprise me :)
<gnosis> life is often like that
<Hermestr> by visiting say archangel Michael in the sphere of Hod you take back with you a bit of his energy. This energy then changes you, but before that point you have to release something that holds you back. Sometimes this releasing is easy and other times hard.
<Hermestr> yes it is much like life but what this energy does is accelerate the process 100 times
<Hermestr> some people are not ready for such changes in their life.
<Hermestr> and for these people they need to take it more slowly.
<Hermestr> I suppose i am going off on a tangent here
<gnosis> it's alright
<Hermestr> so what kinds of experiences have you had
<gnosis> well, i haven't had any meetings with other spiritual beings or anything...not that i know of.
<gnosis> so mainly lucid dreams, OBE's, and projections
<Hermestr> they could contain lots of stuff
<gnosis> yes
<Hermestr> sometimes spiritual beings will be in the guise of a regular person
<gnosis> yeah
<Hermestr> archangel Sandalphon appeared to me in dreams and meditations and OBE's as a man called John. For years he went by that name and never told me who he really was.
<Hermestr> so tell me more about your journey, how you came to be where you are now.
<Hermestr> unless you are not comfortable talking about it, i understand
<gnosis> not that...just not really in the mood to delve into it
<Hermestr> ok
<gnosis> but basically after high school just went thru this phase (that i'm still kind of going thru) of knowing myself and world
<gnosis> you realize that you don't really know a thing about who or what you are and why things are...ya know, the purpose and meaning of things.
<Hermestr> yep, it is a sober moment for sure... continue
<gnosis> well, after lots of trial and error and some suffering, I have come to the conclusion (I think) that the questions of identity and purpose are directly related to forms or planes of existence or reality.
<gnosis> See, right now, I think that it all has to do with how existence or reality is expressed.
<Hermestr> i agree, great insight there
<Hermestr> you can keep going,
<gnosis> existence can be expressed thru different materializations or forms, now, these have nothing to do with the "content" of these planes (content being say living on the planet earth or any other world from an infinity of experiences)
<gnosis> And there are basically shades or a spectrum going from unity to duality.
<gnosis> Duality is what we are all familiar with, it the subject/object world we all know, there is me, and there are things outside me.
<gnosis> I can extract temporary meaning or knowledge from the objects in this world by experiencing them in some way, however, this knowledge does not last, the intensity of the experience quickly fades until it is almost forgotten.
<gnosis> Example: I am hungry, so I seek food, I eat, I feel full, and am not hungry anymore...time passe s... I am hungry again..and so on.
<gnosis> And in this duality, the same principles hold true for the mind as well, we can think anything we want, come up with any possible explanation, but our thoughts, like our satisfaction from hungry, will quickly fade and be forgotten.
<gnosis> and thus we are trapped in a seemingly-inescapabeable circle of infinite realizations, none of which can ever truly fulfill or satisfy us.
<gnosis> But I think there may be a state of mind where the inherent, embedded knowledge of reality is ever-present....
<gnosis> and that is Unity.
<gnosis> In Unity, there is no separation between subject and object, and thus there is no feeling of emptiness or uncertainty.
<Hermestr> in the regions above the abyss (in the spiritual plane) there is no duality or separation.
<Hermestr> knowledge there is instant
<Hermestr> always available, not transient like it seems in the physical plane
<gnosis> yes
<gnosis> cool :)
<Hermestr> however duality and separation are important for human consciousness
<gnosis> yes definitely
<Hermestr> it is how young consciousness can evolve and grow
<Hermestr> well, it is easier I should say
<gnosis> Yes, every state of consciousness is important.
<Hermestr> that environment in the spiritual plane can seem very chaotic if you are not properly prepared and ready for it
<Hermestr> its kind of like holding on to a wild tiger with a dog leash
<gnosis> Yes, and every state has something to offer that cannot be gained or experienced from another state :)
<gnosis> unique
<gnosis> That tiger is infinity!
<Hermestr> yep
<Hermestr> have you read through the Aethyrs on the website
<gnosis> so from what i've learned and experienced that is how things are right now.
<gnosis> no
<Hermestr> much of what you just talked about is all there
<gnosis> neat
<Hermestr> it is the process of reconnection
<Hermestr> very good work there. All that pondering has served you well
<gnosis> I think to be a healthy soul you really need be well traveled along that entire spectrum of unity/duality.
<gnosis> thank you :)
<Hermestr> if you get a chance you can breeze through the Aethyrs, you may find some interesting connections between your experiences and what is there
<gnosis> ok
<Hermestr> yes i think is important as well to firmly walk all the graduations between unity and duality
<gnosis> yeah
<gnosis> Human beings aren't even fully engrossed in this physical world either....but other animals seem to be.
<gnosis> Human beings are in a sort of state of limbo almost
<gnosis> neither here nor there
<gnosis> Animals are so engrossed as physical selves I think all they know (for the most part) is the logic of the physical world, and in some ways they are spared the torment of reflection and uncertainty.
<gnosis> It's like when a human is really involved in something, it's almost animalistic, it's all that he/she knows in that moment.
<gnosis> worries about what to cook for dinner or what to wear or what if your alarm clock doesn't go off?
<gnosis> :)
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<Hermestr> had to step away
<Hermestr> yes humans are in the middle, neither animal nor divine
<Hermestr> shedding that animal portion is what ascension is all about
<baudelair> Hermestr : can u explain the meaning of Seven the number?
<Hermestr> numbers have qualities attached to them
<baudelair> like Pythagoras?
<Hermestr> this has it roots in how the universe is sowed together on a mathematic level
<baudelair> claimed
<baudelair> seven = spirit
<baudelair> six = life
<baudelair> eight = love
<Hermestr> yes
* gnosis has quit IRC ("")
<Hermestr> seven is considered completion
<Hermestr> or spirit
<Hermestr> in a sense that spirit is complete
<Hermestr> and the human is not
<Hermestr> these values to each number have been handed down through the centuries
<Hermestr> I'm sure they have their roots in some very advanced civilization that was able to reduce the universe into it base parts and understand it
<baudelair> has 6 anything to do with christian "number of the beast"?
<baudelair> ok
<Hermestr> 6 is one less than seven so it is considered an incomplete
<Hermestr> 666 is the number in the bible equated to the anti christ or the beast
<Hermestr> 666 is not really the same thing as the number 6
<baudelair> but 6 is life,and live=evil, or.. devil=lived ;>
<baudelair> oh sorry
<Hermestr> good question
<Hermestr> physical reality has been equated with life
<Hermestr> you live your life
<Hermestr> as they say
<Hermestr> so because this is an incomplete reality
<Hermestr> its number is 6.
<Hermestr> 6 is not a bad number
<Hermestr> it is just one less than complete
<Hermestr> which really explains the human condition
<Hermestr> neither animal nor divine, a bit shy of complete

* Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Jul 20 17:19:08 2004

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