January 23, 2003 (workshop log file)

your spiritual and planetary rights; the spiritual path; reality creating; choosing ones path; the mental plane; karma and how it works; dreams and the etheric plane

January 23, 2003 (workshop log file)

Session Start: Thu Jan 23 15:59:59 2003
Session Ident: #energyworks
* Now talking in #energyworks
* Topic is 'You're not just a little wave -- you are a part of the ocean. '
* Set by Attuned!-Attuned@ar7-m6.net.hinet.hr on Mon Jan 20 16:31:28
<Hermestr> Howdy
<Gamble-> Hello
<Hermestr> hi gamble
<Ancient1> hello
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<Hermestr> how is everyone today ?
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<Ancient1> happy to be here
<Hermestr> You been here before ancient1?
<Ancient1> no, always at my martial arts class.
<Hermestr> I thought I heard you say something about martial arts class once before
<Hermestr> for was that someone else
<Hermestr> for = or
<Ancient1> yeah last time I was here for a sec
<Ancient1> but I had to leave as soon as you got on
<Hermestr> do you have to leave again today or is it because I am on early
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<Ancient1> cause your on early
<Ancient1> I leave in about 40 min
<Hermestr> OK so you have any questions being I am here
<Ancient1> absolutely
<Ancient1> been saving one for ya
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<Hermestr> okay go for it
<Ancient1> If we live most of our lives in this physical reality, why is it that we must leave this state of consciousness to learn the important things about ourselves and the world.
<Ancient1> and
<Ancient1> If we eventually use all the skills we learn in this consciousness why can't we learn them here in the fist place
<Ancient1> fist= first
<Hermestr> Who's says we leave to learn more ? Physical reality is a teaching reality . You are here to learn all you can about being human and about the more than human .
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<Severian^> hi =)
<Ancient1> ok
<Ancient1> I have another if its ok
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<Severian^> hi mistery
<Mistery2> hello
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<Hermestr> sure send off the next question ancient
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<Severian^> :-) What would be a good question?
<Hermestr> ancient had a question
<Hermestr> he has to leave in a bit
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<Ancient1> alright I’m sorry I was trying to think of how to word this
<Ancient1> so here it goes
<Ancient1> I believe that humans should live in balance with this world and this earth we live on
<Ancient1> yet all humans seem to do is pollute and destroy this world
<Attuned> and each other
<Hermestr> yes they love to do that
<Ancient1> would it be right for me to spend my life trying to protect this world and truth if it is what I would enjoy doing
<Ancient1> would I have the right to prevent others from destroying it
<Hermestr> you have a right to protect yourself and those around you that have asked for protection . You also have a say in the group reality of which the planet is a part
<Ancient1> alright that clears things up some
<Ancient1> the funny thing is
<Hermestr> Because you're part still part of the planet, you can take steps to help it evolve and grow
<Ancient1> a had a talk with a grandmaster in Goju-Ryu Karate (Bob Cook)
<Ancient1> and he basically said the same thing
<Severian^> whatever is right in your heart, is the "true" thing for you to do, that you would learn appropriately from
<Severian^> that’s my feeling
<Hermestr> The ascended master's for example can not do anything to help the planet unless we as humans take the steps needed in that direction and ask for their health
<Hermestr> health = help
<Hermestr> Because ascended masters are no longer part of the planet, they cannot act without permission
<Ancient1> we were discussing the essence or role of a true martial artist, and it ended up to go something like this, so just tell me what you think please
<Hermestr> Sure
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<Ancient1> A martial artist looks for the truth in life and uses the skills and strength he attains to protect it
<Ancient1> so basically a true martial artist is a guardian
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<Ancient1> a guardian of life, truth and balance , to clarify a little
<Hermestr> yes the goal is to find harmony peace and balance within the self and with life
<Mistery2> Mr Hermes, about protection from evil and from bad things happening to us, do we really have control over it? sometimes I have a sense that there is a very evil energy around whose goal is to hurt me; is this a fear you think, or is this energy real? and what does one do in such cases?
<Hermestr> being human beings being filled with all sorts of conflicting thoughts and feelings . We are human to learn how to release these things
<Ancient1> thank you very much Hermes .
<Ancient1> I have to get to class now
<Hermestr> Glad to help Didn't tell you anything you did your ready now, have a good class
<Hermestr> did not already know ^
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<Ancient1> hope to see you again
<Ancient1> bye
<Hermestr> OK next question
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<Severian^> I think Mistery had one, I'm not sure if you saw it
<Severian^> ah i didn’t even see the reply
<Severian^> laugh :)
<Hermestr> there is a dark force that will try to impede your progress forward
<Hermestr> it is the goal of every person seeking ascension to conquer these forces
<Hermestr> various people will have them to various degrees
<Hermestr> you can and will conquer these forces if you are persistent
<Hermestr> once you gain victory over them they can never take advantage of you anymore , unless you let your guard down fallout
<Hermestr> fallout should not be there
<Severian^> what about the yin and the yang?
<Mistery2> thank you :)
<Hermestr> yin and yang refers more to the aspect of duality, than to evil in itself
<Severian^> a person desiring the yin, will always do so if he cant embrace the yang also
<Severian^> but can there be good without evil?
<Hermestr> Good and evil are part of the duality lesson in physical reality . So there will always be good and evil on the planet . The idea is to learn how to control these forces within yourself .
<Severian^> the forces that move a being towards non-ascension
<Severian^> must they not be embraced and accepted too?
<Severian^> isn’t there a duality in everything?
<Hermestr> Yes you must accept that evil exists for what purpose however you do not have to accept it working in your life
<Hermestr> for a purpose ^
<Mistery2> if I believe in my heart that Jesus protects me and my family from evil, accidents, etc, does this create some energy that protects us? or do we also have to pray on a daily basis?
<Hermestr> Jesus like many other spiritual icons serve as an energy depository . So by focusing on this name or symbol you unlock this energy into your life.
<Hermestr> prayer is very powerful but as long as you understand how energy is released regarding focusing on the symbols you do not have to engage in prayer to take advantage of the protection
<Severian^> Jesus said, "Whoever drinks from my mouth will become like me; I myself shall become that person, and the hidden things will be revealed to him."
<Hermestr> Yes he was speaking about this energy depository of which everyone could use for their protection and healing
<Hermestr> of course back then they did not understand such complex topics so things had to be broken down more simply
<Hermestr> I do not want you to think you have to give up prayer if that is an important part of your spiritual life
<Hermestr> IM just pointing out how it works
<Severian^> I sometimes pray to the archangels for protection
<Mistery2> but what if we have karma we need to pay back; let's say we hurt people in the past and our due is to be hurt back; if we are protected by this energy from ascended masters, how do we improve our karma?
<Hermestr> There are two ways to get rid of bad karma . One is to experience it in it's unpleasant form , in which case you experience that karma like you impose did on the other...
<Hermestr> the other way to pay back karma is through good deeds or good services to other people in a way this kind of opposite to the original karma
<Hermestr> In other words let's say you stole money from somebody in the past
<Hermestr> to pay back that karma, you could do yourself have money stolen from you
<Hermestr> or
<Hermestr> you can give away money to people that need it
<Hermestr> so in this example there are two ways for you to pay this karma back
<Hermestr> all karma is like that, there are always two ways to pay it back . If you do not try to pay it back through positive means then the negative karmic reaction will take hold
<Hermestr> did I answer the question sufficiently?
<Mistery2> yes, thank you
<Severian^> Sometimes it is difficult to ask questions, I almost feel as if knowledge cant be given but must be taken.
<Hermestr> please explain ?
<Severian^> Well I have a billion questions (almost!), but words mean nothing unless I can experience things for myself.
<Severian^> ....and my truth must be mine, no one else’s
<Severian^> Maybe you know what question I should ask? :)
<Hermestr> it is true that experience is the true teacher
<Hermestr> However at times the mind needs nourishment before experience can be gotten.
<Hermestr> so these workshops lay the foundation for experience and then knowledge becomes wisdom
<Severian^> Yeah, I think all fingers should point at the moon. :)
<Severian^> yes it is a very valuable thing these workshops
<Severian^> I think admiration goes a long way
<Severian^> as I interpret the Jesus quote in the gospel of Thomas I mentioned earlier
<Hermestr> Well with workshops a did not mean these workshops specifically but the seeking of knowledge in general . However I am very glad you are finding these workshops useful.
<Severian^> I believe that real knowledge is a measure of spiritual evolution.
<Severian^> it increases as a being ascends
<Severian^> but not wanting to change, while amassing loads of information, does very little
<Severian^> I used to read much too much :)
<Hermestr> Well in the beginning of many people's spiritual journeys begins, with a tremendous amount of reading
<Hermestr> so it is quite normal to read everything you can and then realize that you need to apply this information before it is going to be useful
<Severian^> If I met the Buddha on the road, and asked him about the meaning of life
<Severian^> :) I wouldn’t be true to myself if I simply did as he said
<Hermestr> Well the meaning of life can mean different things from different people .
<Hermestr> For myself a business spiritual journey to know myself .
<Hermestr> yikes strike that last line
<Severian^> laugh ok
<Hermestr> for myself it is y spiritual journey to know myself
<Hermestr> darn voice recognition, did not catch that mistake
<Severian^> voice recognition? neat :)
<Severian^> without expectations?
<Hermestr> you mean to know myself without expectations ?
<Severian^> ye
<Severian^> Or do you expect anything out of being?
<Severian^> No need to answer...
<Hermestr> Yes well expectations , I expected a lot in the beginning . But now after many years and lessons . I expect to much less or nothing . I am happy with any victories or advances that I make
* Severian^ nods.
<Hermestr> I expect much less ^
<Severian^> chasing after goals make them seem very far away and elusive eh?
<Severian^> I sometimes expect things out of a practice, but the rewards might be even better, but only different.
<Hermestr> yes goals can often seem very far . However there are times when the human needs a point of reference for a goal to focus on . So I can't say we can throw out goals altogether .
<Severian^> I never get what I expect :)
<Severian^> I mean: I never get what I desire
<Severian^> but i get other cool things
<Hermestr> well obtaining things in life is more than desire you also must have a need
<Hermestr> If you desire something but you cannot show a good enough need for it the universe will not manifesting
<Severian^> need for what?
<Hermestr> not manifest it^
<Hermestr> In other words what you want has to have some usefulness for you for others in your reality
<Hermestr> And
<Hermestr> You must demonstrate through action that there is a need for this
<Hermestr> For example
<Hermestr> You want to manifest a new relationship
<Hermestr> So you imagine what this relationship would be like
<Hermestr> But nothing happens
<Hermestr> This is because you have not show the universe that you need this relationship
<Hermestr> You must also think about the benefits that will come to you yourself and others from having this relationship
<Hermestr> You also must prove physical action demonstrate that you want this manifestation to happen
<Hermestr> In the case of our example
<Hermestr> You would have to be more friendly to the opposite sex
<Hermestr> Or go live your way to help someone of the opposite sex
<Severian^> need, as with the purpose of doing good deeds?
<Severian^> that I need it in order to..?
<Severian^> I'm not so sure that I need anything :)
<Severian^> well...
<Severian^> Okay
<Hermestr> am I making myself clear ?
<Severian^> yes, but I cant identify the purpose of my need
<Severian^> except for the noble act of helping someone in trouble
<Hermestr> What you want has to be followed a with concrete action of some sort toward what you wish to manifest
<Severian^> As a spiritual example:
<Severian^> if I want "enlightenment", how could i demonstrate my need for that
<Severian^> or peace of mind
<Hermestr> what would be the benefits of your enlightenment?
<Severian^> it is an elusive word
<Severian^> lets say I'd like to heal sick people
<Severian^> how can i show that I need that ability
<Hermestr> OK so you go out the books on healing techniques for starters
<Hermestr> You apply some of what you learned to the dog
<Hermestr> or cat
<Severian^> :-)
<Hermestr> and then when you feel strong enough to people
<Hermestr> You will find that all you have to do is demonstrate to the universe that you want to use this skill and it will gladly make it happen
<Severian^> but does the universe need me to do it?
<Severian^> ah well, sorry yes you answered my question
<Hermestr> the universe wants you to be you. if that you is a healer it is very happy to make that happen
<Severian^> how to find out?
<Hermestr> You are part of the universe to be unique to train your own journey. The universe is all too happy to help you to be that unique person .
<Hermestr> How to find out what?
<Severian^> What I'm supposed to need. ;-)
<Hermestr> What ever you desire or you can think of ,
<Hermestr> there is a pattern to life, if you feel you need something in your life and you demonstrate that you will use it , the universe will provide it
<Severian^> It is just a matter of figuring out where to go
<Severian^> what to do
<Hermestr> well you start with way you are now , and what you feel you need , or think you want .
<Severian^> who to be
<Severian^> I'd like to experience the state of no desi......... laugh!!
<Severian^> strike that
<Severian^> I just did.
<Severian^> Okay, thanks... these are difficult questions
<Hermestr> take the time to get your words
<Severian^> okay, this is how I see things right now
<Severian^> what propels me forward is the desire of increased perception, so I can experience life and creation in a fuller and more significant way
<Severian^> deep down that’s it, nothing else is really important
<Hermestr> So this increase in perception has taken you through a spiritual path ?
<Severian^> there are some ethics involved too, like not interfering with the spiritual evolution of others, or speed them up they so inner desire
<Severian^> err if they desire
<Hermestr> Yes of course learning how not to interfere in another person's reality creation is part of the spiritual journey
<Severian^> It is the path... every step, every lesson integrated is a bigger appreciation and perception of the creation
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<Severian^> You have the tree of life on your site, to move upwards is to merge opposites within oneself... in fact re-merging oneself with oneself
<Severian^> what is your view on that? :)
<Hermestr> Because this is a dualistic reality merging the duality within yourself is very important
<Severian^> I am a part of a division of my Tiphareth self
<Severian^> of course, this isn’t "real" knowledge... but "rational" conclusions
<Hermestr> As you travel of the tree of life , you'll meet with various dualistic portions of yourself , actually these portions will be brought out, so that you can see them
<Severian^> my experience has been that the only way to learn as a spiritual being, is to see both sides of dualities presented, and integrate them
<Severian^> that is what i meant with increased perception
<Hermestr> When you travel the tree of life , The energies you come in contact with will evolve you, just like coming in contact with them
<Hermestr> just by coming in contact with them ^
<Hermestr> so while you may gain some knowledge while being in the tree of life , the real evolution comes from the energy that you take on .
<Severian^> I've done some pathworking... but it is purely mental
<Hermestr> Are you sure it's only mental ?
<Severian^> he he, I’m not sure of anything
<Severian^> but i get that impression
<Hermestr> The mental plane is a valid plane
<Severian^> it isn't restricted in any sense... the spheres are mental imagery
<Severian^> I’m not up to astral travel
<Hermestr> it is not as real feeling as a pure out of body event is, but it is still valid .
<Mistery2> when we dream do we travel the tree of life?
<Hermestr> I see you have not yet tried to travel in meditation for a dream is.
<Severian^> hmm
<Severian^> Well my tree is a mental 3D landscape... with quite different feelings and energies associated with the symbols, yea
<Hermestr> You can travel the tree of life in a meditation . It just may take a bit of patience and practice.
<Severian^> so i guess it works in that way
<Severian^> but any vision isn't stable, like i imagine it would be astrally
<Severian^> it is flickery, depending on my focus and concentration
<Hermestr> Yes the mental plane is a bit more fragile, especially in the beginning.
<Severian^> thus it seems more unreal, more imaginatory
<Hermestr> but in time you will learn to focus more clearly on the mental plane and will not experience the disconnected quality you have now .
<Severian^> hmm
<Severian^> well true, every hour of practice is a tiny step forward :)
<Hermestr> Some people are really good with out of body travel, other people are good with mental travel. however both skills can be developed .
<Hermestr> start with the one that seems easier for you , and then later you can go on to the other one .
<Severian^> I've at least started seeing the creation of mental images as a focusing of energy
<Severian^> with different vibration
<Severian^> it helps ALOT to keep images stable
<Severian^> as i said, every step forward beings unexpected side benefits, he he
<Severian^> err "brings"
<Severian^> I'll continue working on the mental part
<Hermestr> yes keep working on it
<Hermestr> it will get easier
<Severian^> Ah one question! :-)
<Severian^> Do you have time?
<Hermestr> sure
<Severian^> Okay, to express something on the mental/emotional/physical plane at the same time...
<Severian^> Usually, so called "magical speech" should be done this way. Do you agree? For example when doing rituals....
<Hermestr> magick is a way to manifest what you want on multiple planes of existence at the same time
<Hermestr> however magick is not the only way to do this
<Hermestr> earlier we discussed using reality creating to do the same thing
<Hermestr> it all depends on how you wanna go about creating what you want .
* Severian^ nods.
<Severian^> What would be the benefit of manifesting something on all planes at the same time?
<Hermestr> It is true that if you're intended manifestation can be bought into each reality plane it will make a very swift show on the physical plane
<Mistery2> is regular speech magical in some way? for example, when people talk negatively about each other do they create negative energy?
<Hermestr> yes all thought causes change and goes out like radio waves . Negative thought goes out like a radio wave and is destructive to those it is said to.
<Hermestr> Sent to ^
<Mistery2> sometimes when I hear very negative words, ie curses or insults, or i read them, i feel physically as if I'm assaulted; is it because I become sort of plugged into the energy created by those thoughts ie violence hatred etc?
<Hermestr> a thought is mental and will go out on the mental plane. if that is a destructive thought it will hurt and then incur a karmic reaction
<Hermestr> if the thought is accompanied by strong emotion, then you will feel the destructive energy on an emotional level . And of course a karmic response will be manifested as well .
<Mistery2> yikes
<Mistery2> nothing is trivial huh
<Severian^> it can be complex, or trivial, depends on the point of view ;)
<Severian^> isnt that some sort of duality as well, lol
<EMwave> a wholly materialistic person might think themself immune to karma, since they do not accept it exists?
<Severian^> the should believe in cause and effect though
<Severian^> err they
<Mistery2> Severian, by trivial i mean inconsequential; most people think their little vicious thoughts don't have any effect
<Severian^> My reality is that evil thoughts have a moral effect on myself, I'm personally not up to actually perceiving how it affects others.
<Severian^> I see what you mean though... that nothing seems inconsequential
<Severian^> i cant spell :)
<Hermestr> it's a shame more people do not understand how karma works, they would certainly be more careful with what they say and do
<Severian^> isn’t that understanding a quite high level of perception?
<Severian^> my own understanding is mostly fear based
<Hermestr> well the more pure you can make your own inner self the more from you you'll be too negative energy from other people
<Hermestr> the reason negative energy affects you is because within yourself you possess that quality
<Severian^> I mean, okay I feel a degree of affinity for everything that exists... BUT, i don’t donate the main part of my income to help the starving
<Hermestr> let's try that again , the more pure you make your own inner being, The more immune you will be to negative thoughts from others
<Severian^> the trick is not having to disassociate to achieve it ;)
<Severian^> it is easy enough to be neutral
<Severian^> or seems, at least
<Mistery2> that is a great thing I learned here Mr Hermes
<Hermestr> well of course living in the hut to all by yourself kind of takes you out of the loop of negative energy being sent at you . So yes you do need physical interaction with others to work this out .
<Mistery2> most people don't know this secret
<Severian^> What are you referring to Mistery?
<Hermestr> it's very easy to do to remove these things . When you find a certain kind of negative thought or motion affecting you from other people , then you look inside yourself to where you are also guilty of doing this to others . Then you remove it from your personality forever. if you can do this less and less negative energy will affect you .
<Hermestr> motion = emotion
<Severian^> Would you say that all negative (and positive) thoughts / actions are agreed upon by two beings even before they actually manifest.
<Severian^> That we cooperate to learn from each other?
<Hermestr> They are agreed upon in that within you there is that quality , which then allows them to thrust this negative energy upon you
<Hermestr> it is a kind of cooperation, but it is more a karmic reaction than anything else.
* Severian^ nods.
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<MattKane> Hi.
<Severian^> hi~~
<MattKane> What is this channel about?
<Severian^> I should be going... best wishes to everyone who has been here tonight, and thanks!
<Hermestr> Take care
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<Mistery2> Mr Hermes I have one question
<Hermestr> Sure
<Mistery2> I dreamed last night that I was in my city of birth, far away, and there were recognizable features but much was different
<Mistery2> how can I tell if I was astrally there, or in a dream version of the places I grew up in
<Mistery2> everything was extremely vivid, colors and people
<Hermestr> Well no doubt you'll most likely there , when you don't know is can see where in time and space we're , or what probable reality you were in.
<Hermestr> every dream has real elements in it
<Mistery2> you mean my energy body traveled astrally to Eastern Europe?
<Hermestr> yes it did
<Hermestr> you inhabited that place on the planet on either a probable reality or on the etheric plane
<MattKane> Have you had an out-of-body experience?
<Hermestr> things on the etheric plane can be different then on the physical plane.
<Mistery2> so on the etheric plane there is an etheric version of my city of birth?
<Hermestr> time and space in this reality is less solid and more fluid , so things can be in different places for things can be there that are not there , for things can be missing .
<Hermestr> Yes every place on the planet their exists an etheric counterpart
<Mistery2> why do you think it felt very different, alive and colorful?
<Hermestr> Many dreams will take place on the etheric plane
<Hermestr> Your nonphysical senses are much more vibrant and alive then you're physical senses. the senses also have a wider range to them and then the physical ones
<Hermestr> Wider range to them, than the physical ones. ^
<EMwave> how could physical scientists be challenged to research the etheric plane?
<MattKane> ...and how can it be researched?
<Hermestr> I suppose they first would have to develop instruments capable of picking up energy on the etheric plane .
<Hermestr> there has not been a need to develop such equipment
<Hermestr> so science has not develop any thing along these lines
<EMwave> there has been no new theory of physics since the 1920's, so the etheric may be the way forward?
<Hermestr> I think as they examine finer and fire particles of matter , they will reach a point where it will be on the etheric plane level .
<MattKane> Does anyone of you have the ability to astral project at will?
<Hermestr> and finer ^
<Hermestr> yes Matt many people here on this channel do travel out of the body
<MattKane> I was interested in astral projection but after years without any success lost the interest. Tried even some sounds that should synchronize the brain etc.
<Hermestr> on the web site you will find much information on out of the body travel
<Hermestr> it is not an easy skill to develop . It takes persistence and patience .
<Hermestr> Your energy must be raised .
<Hermestr> On the web site there are exercises to help you do this .
<MattKane> I see. I read about that kind of exercises.
<Hermestr> With the exercises and if you follow the guidelines on the website articles , you can expect results in four to six months
<MattKane> Have you experienced any aspects described in so called near-death experiences?
<Hermestr> Yes these experiences are quite common once you've had several out of the body experiences
<Hermestr> well that's about it for tonight , I will catch everybody on Tuesday ,
<Hermestr> have a good night
Session Close: Thu Jan 23 19:02:17 2003