January 14, 2003 (workshop log file)

Souls and the Monad; the rose cross & the Merkabah of protection; free will; fallen angels; the fall of man from God; healing with the OLAP, ARN, ARAGOTH; healing the 8th, 9th, 10th, 11th charka; removing fears or entities during dreams; manifesting things right away; creating energyballs; healing depression and the solar plexus; creating harmony in relationships; dealing with karma;

January 14, 2003 (workshop log file)

Session Start: Tue Jan 14 16:37:46 2003
Session Ident: #energyworks
* Now talking in #energyworks
* Topic is 'Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood. '
* Set by Gamble-!gamble@chello080110132209.102.11.vie.surfer.at on Mon Jan 06 06:45:06
<electra1> You get the book and cards together as a set
<electra1> Greetings \Hermes
* Retrieving #energyworks info...
<Misery1> hi electra
<Misery1> hi Attuned :)
<electra1> well hello again Misery
<Hekate1> Finally made it and I am greatly humbled to be in thy presence Hermes
<Hekate1> Thank you electra, Hekate is a patron goddess...
<electra1> of the Moon and Crossroads
<electra1> and all things mystical
<Hekate1> Yes.
<electra1> If you look at her card you will find great energy and secrets
<Hermestr> hi everyone
<Linka> Hi Hermes and everyone!
<electra1> Salve Magister
<Linka> Welcome
<Hermestr> got a room full here tonight
<Linka> Yes, I'm so excited and my mom sitting beside me to learn more about your knowledge Hermes
<fooki> I’ve got a question: what defines the origin of a soul? Why some are called old souls and also claim that soul is eternal why aren't those two claims conflicting? somebody also claimed that some souls become angels and stop being souls, what is your view on this?
<Linka> :-)
<Hekate1> goof question
<Hermestr> well much of this depends on your view of what a soul is. The term soul can mean different things to different people.
<Hekate1> good
<Hermestr> but if we take the soul to mean...
<fooki> what kind of different definition of soul there are?
<fooki> definitions
<fooki> and how is my question answered according to those definitions?
<Hermestr> that eternal part of yourself that survives death than we can start from there. Unless you meant soul in a different way.
<lotus_an> 2Hello, everybody!
<Hermestr> an old soul is a term given to a person with lots of previous lives on the planet. It does not mean that one soul is older than another in the terms of the birth of a soul.
<Hekate1> Yes, to me that is a good place to start defining soul...
<fooki> I didn't mean soul in any specific way, I am just willing to understand this
<Hermestr> souls just are, they are not really born
<Hermestr> in a birth sense
<Hermestr> Souls are created from the Monadic self
<Hekate1> I agree. Because how could one of us be older than the next?
<Hermestr> as it subdivides itself down into lower planes of manifestation
<Hekate1> Do we return to the monad?
<Hermestr> eventually you will return to the monadic self again
<Hermestr> ascension is the merger of the soul with the monadic self
<Hekate1> yes, and is it there are 12 should per each monad?
<Hekate1> souls
<Hermestr> there is 144 souls per monad
<lotus_an> 2So is the soul eternal? And what is the difference between soul and spirit then?
<Hermestr> there are 12 groups of two
<Hermestr> or 12 by 12
<Linka> Are those avatars closer of uniting with the monadic self?
<Hermestr> sure the more spiritually evolved you are the closer that soul is to uniting with the monad
<Linka> ok
<Hekate1> It has been a while since my study of the monad, thank you hermes.
<Hekate1> So these 144 souls, do they all unite upon ascension in union with the monad?
<Hermestr> each one of the 144 souls will ascend in their own way back to the monad
<Hermestr> but not at the same time
<Hekate1> And of twin flames, are they of the same monad?
<Hermestr> when a soul reunites with the monad it is more than it was before it broke away
<Hermestr> it has gained the knowledge of being an individual
<Hermestr> and of the interaction with other souls
<Hermestr> upon its reuniting, it is both one with the monad yet it still retains its own uniqueness
<lotus_an> 2Hermes, what is the difference between soul and spirit?
<Hermestr> you could call this new united soul as part of a gestalt, where the memory of the entire 144 is shared
<Hermestr> twinflames are two souls from the same branch
<fooki> on what level are the ascended masters are in?
<Hermestr> twinflames are more than soulmates they are part of each other because they come form that same branch
<fooki> and what is your opinion of some souls becoming angels and stopping being souls
<Hermestr> branch of the monad
<Hermestr> ascended masters are souls that have united with their monad once more
<Hekate1> So the monad is our creator? In a sense that we are a spark of its creative intelligence?
<Hermestr> they are part of the entire universe yet they retain their own uniqueness
<fooki> so a ascended master is still one of 144?
<Hermestr> as far as our use of the word soul, and angel is a soul as well
<fooki> so what makes a soul angel then?
<Hermestr> an angel is often referred to as a being that has never descended into physical reality and has never been split away from the monad
<Linka> so ascended has already been in their monad again? Is it why some ascended masters are called Gods in India, because they have been close to the source?
<fooki> so an angel is just one of 144 with less experience than an individual ascended master?
<Hermestr> yes an ascended master would still be one part of his monad soul group of a total of 144
<Misery1> do angels have free will?
<Hermestr> yes you could say than an angel's monad never descended into physical reality so that experience is beyond that monad
<lotus_an> 2Hermes, what is the difference between the protection provided by the Rose Cross and the one provided by the Merkabah?
<Hekate1> Ain’t it great to be human... :)..... what an experience!
<Misery1> uh
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<Hermestr> these angelic monad's never split from the universe so they are always in perfect harmony with the universe. However they do lack some of the individuality that you think of, because they have not split from source. This is neither a good or bad thing. It just depends on what experiences that particular monad has embarked on.
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<Hermestr> to be an ascended master is to be united with the monad and be one with God again, so yes they would seem godlike
<Linka> thank you
<Hekate1> ascended masters also had earthly experience unlike angles...
<Hekate1> so they would have more individual awareness than the angels?
<Hermestr> the Merkabah is a heavy duty protection routine that you may not need to use all the time. the rose cross is good for most things. the Merkabah is better suited to protect your traveling consciousness in dreams or out of body travel. however the Merkabah can also be used for everyday protection as well.
<Hermestr> Angels do not have free will like humans do or ascended masters because they never split from the monad. Their every action is in perfect harmony with God. They are incapable of acting out of harmony with God so you could say they have less free will than humans do.
<Hekate1> 4But it is their choice is it not if they were created in that monad, for their specific work? It is all in perfect harmony is it not?
<lotus_an> 2So the Merkabah is efficient both for the physical and the astral world? And for protecting somebody else which method should be better?
<Hermestr> yes angelic souls have made their own choice, the choice not to do evil or create chaos, which is not a bad choice if you ask me, saves lots of pain and karma
<Attuned> but what about the fallen angels? didn't they have some free will if they could decide to go against God?
<Hermestr> the rose cross would be better for protecting others. the Merkabah is more of a personal protection energy.
<Misery1> so at some point we who are on earth made a choice to have the ability to create chaos?
<Hekate1> 14Yes I agree hermes, saves the pain
<Hermestr> fallen angels are different. In a sense they too are acting under God's will
<Hekate1> Yes, for they are here to challenge us?
<Hermestr> without fallen angles there would not be the choice of creating in harmony or against it
<Hermestr> and yes it is their job to challenge the human spirit, to cause it to grow when other methods do not work
<Hekate1> 14Yes, so they come in when we do not listen to experiences to awaken?
<Linka> But if we call for the angels of love and peace to cooperate for good cause in this world. We are beginners in this path, what is your point of view about this matter and do you have your own experience to share?
<Hermestr> linka, can you explain a bit, I don't understand your question
<Hermestr> Misery: yes we chose to create out of harmony with God to find out what would happen
<Hermestr> this is called the fall of mankind away from God
<lotus_an> 2is it Ok to use a piece of paper as a remainder of the magick formula, considering all those Hebrew words that are not easy to memorize at the beginning?
<Hekate1> In this fall, when we choose to look away from God, is there only pain?
<Linka> Yes, you said one can call for OLAP and ARAGOTH, we try to call them every morning, is it ok? Does it give good results to my own study and the conference I'm going to have this year?
<Hermestr> lotus: yes I write all my magick formula down. I have it on index cards that I can pull out and use
<Hermestr> yes to be separated from God causes pain, only because if you do not create within the universal current your energy gets cancelled out by creation
<lotus_an> 2in the first movement of the WLE, how come that Virgo (as Equivalent Planetary Energy) corresponds to Water (Yud), while Scorpio corresponds to Fire (Nun), considering that Virgo is a sign of Earth and Scorpio is a sign of Water?
<Hekate1> indeed that would cause pain...
<Hermestr> just imagine what would happen if your heart decided it would not pump blood all the time because it did not want to work in harmony with the brain.
<Hermestr> the body would die, pain is caused because all the parts do not work in harmony
<Hekate1> yes.... exactly...
<Hermestr> the less that mankind is learning that he has lots of freewill to create lots of things, but he has to make sure that what he creates is in perfect harmony with the rest of the universe.
<Hekate1> and we do this by right feeling and right action?
<Hermestr> linka: you can call these healers anytime you need them. Once, twice, three times a day.
<Hekate1> going with what feels most right within us?
<Linka> oh, how wonderful!
<Hermestr> linka: they will always help you to heal and be more perfect, just by their presence alone.
<Hekate1> I read the last lod, and these healers were spoken of... who are they?
<Hermestr> lotus: the planetary energies are different from the earthly energies. Astrology does ascribe these energies to certain earthly energies but that is not really a 100 percent match.
<Hermestr> Scorpio energy is the energy of transformation under the planetary energy of Pluto, even though it is a water sign which is an emotional sign the energy it carries is unique in itself.
<Misery1> Hermes, when having nightmares about fighting evil beings, is there a way to tell whether it's just fear or actual fight with discarnate entities?
<Linka> now this morning, we followed your explanation for healing 9th, 10th and 11th charka. Even we visualized that my father joined us. Now this evening something happened with his left eye. Could it have some link with the healing we have done? (He is sleeping now)
<Hermestr> Hekate: are you talking about the OLAP, ARN, ARAGOTH healers? http://www.wisdomsdoor.com/library/healing.php
<Hekate1> yes, thank you hermes
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<Hermestr> Misery: it is hard to tell whether it is your fear or a real entity you are fighting in your dreams. However the cure is the same. Use your nonphysical sword to slay them.
<Hekate1> do you just visualize a sword?
<Hekate1> The more real or awake we feel I these dreams, the more likely it is to be real?
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<Hermestr> Linka: there could be a connection. It is possible there is a problem there and the energy you invoked has now gone to work to heal it. Sometimes when you invoke healing energy a condition will get worse before it gets better. The invoked energy mobilizes the body's internal healing capabilities.
<lotus_an> 2Thank you, Hermes. I would also like to know: in order to obtain a quick result with reality creation, let’s say at the level at which one thinks about something and immediately or very soon that thing manifests, that person has not only to become an experienced practitioner of reality creation techniques, but he also has to clean his karma first, right? Is that the case of Sai Baba, for example?
<Hekate1> So a good start for reality creating would be to control our thinking patterns....
<Hekate1> ?
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<Hermestr> Hekcate: yes just visualize a sword in your hand and go to work on them. this action will remove any of the entities if they are there, and if they are fears it will also remove them as well.
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<Hermestr> Hekate: all dreams are real, you are focused in another dimension.
<Hermestr> they feel more or less real depending on just how much of your consciousness is focused in the dream
<Linka> Thank you for the explanation. Because my mom has been worried and running to the Pharmacia to buy eye drops, since we are traveling to Far East next day.
<Hekate1> thank you, what if we feel negative energies/ entities around us in the physical... is it possible to visualize this in the physical?
<Hekate1> like thought forms...
<Hermestr> lotus: yes, you have to have both things going for you to manifest things instantly. You have to know exactly how to focus your thoughts and you have to be free of all the negative energy within you that would stop an instant manifestation.
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<davedave> Hi everyone
<Hermestr> linka, most likely that eye will clear up real fast. it was a preexisting condition that you were not aware of so the healing energy is accelerating it so it can fully heal.
<Linka> aha..
<SilkSatin> hello everyone
<Hekate1> My daughter got scolded by hot water on her back yesterday, could I use these healers to help in her healing?
<SilkSatin> am I late?
<Hermestr> hectate: yes you can use that sword technique when you are awake as well
<Hermestr> just use your imagination
<davedave> what have we been discussing today so far?
<SilkSatin> hello Hermes, nice to finally meet you in chat...
<Hekate1> I was wanting to know if I could use these healers to help heal my daughter who got scolded by hot water on her back yesterday
<davedave> oh
<SilkSatin> wondering if I am lagged... will someone ping me please?
<Hermestr> Hekate: yes the OLAP healers would be good for that, just call them in, while you work your hand over the area that was burned. say their name silently to yourself
<Hermestr> you will feel their energy come into your hand and work through you
<Hermestr> it may be like heat or a tingling
<Hekate1> thank you so much, I was hoping there would be a way I could help her healing process, thanks.
<Hermestr> you will find that a simple healing like this will help the body to heal 5 times faster than normal
<Hekate1> that is great.
<SilkSatin> hello
<Hermestr> hi silksatin
<SilkSatin> hello Hermes :)
<SilkSatin> this is a q&a workshop or specific topic?
<davedave> hermes, I have a question regarding the creation mechanism
<davedave> you've mentioned that once we finish putting an energyball into the vortex, we should directly move onto another thought
<lotus_an> 2Can the same OLAP healing be used in the case of a flu or of a sinusitis? And what should it be done as an (symbolic) action in this case, apart from their invocation?
<Brulaap> hello all, first time here :)
<Hermestr> davedave: yes it is best to forget about what you want to create and go on to your regular life
<SilkSatin> hello Bru
<SilkSatin> Hermes I have a question concerning the same subject too...
<davedave> exactly -- so here's the question:
<Brulaap> hello :) tried to get in earlier but no one was around I think
<davedave> any general thoughts about what this "next" thought should be like?
<davedave> presumably your energy ball thought is very important to you
<Hekate1> Yes, its my first time too, finally made it1
<davedave> should the "next thought" be about something less important?
<Hermestr> lotus: yes you can call the OLAP in to heal a flu or something minor like that too., they will assist in the healing process to bring it to swifter end.
<davedave> basically, we are always thinking all the time, aren't we?
<Hermestr> davedave: anything else, just do the energyball and then go have a pizza.
<davedave> really?
<Hermestr> well you do not have to think all the time. meditation teaches you how to quiet the mind.
<Hermestr> I shut my mind off when it is not doing anything
<Hermestr> random thoughts just create havoc in your reality
<davedave> yes, that seems true
<SilkSatin> about reality creation mechanism.. it says you should picture what you want in your mind and place it is the energy ball... what if what we want is not a thing we can visualize properly? like say, better health... or make friends.... or find a job... how can we visualize such?
<Hermestr> yea davedave go have some food, ride a bike, make a phone call, the idea is to put the energyball routine out of your mind for awhile
<Brulaap> Hermes, one quick question I have.. I tried to meditate earlier (my 3rd time) and 2 out of 3 meditations seemed to give me sort of sensations.. today however I felt like some sort of pain (was more annoying then painful) that went from upper right part of the head slowly down towards my right ear or temple.. is that normal? I wasn't really alarmed by it, but I did notice when I broke up my meditation.. it was completely gone
<Hermestr> SilkSatin, you can put feelings into the energyballs as well. the feeling of being healthy. You could also imagine what you would be doing if you were more healthy, and how good it would feel.
<Hekate1> Is there any time where the use of energy balls would be more prosperous? Like the full moon or sum'n?
<SilkSatin> oh ok... thanks Hermes
<Hermestr> Burlapp: it is possible there is some kind of energy block there and the meditation energy was trying to break it down. are you using crystals? or just regular meditation?
<Hekate1> I certainly know about thoughts creating havoc! My mind just runs amuck too much! I still have a lot of work to do in this area.
<Brulaap> just regular meditation
<Misery1> Hermes do you have any suggestions how to deal with the weakness of procrastination?
<Hermestr> heckate: I have found that the lunar cycles or those other mystical cycles do not seem to effect the energyball routine.
<Hermestr> it works all the time, what more than likely will effect your energy output is how you are feeling at the time
<Hekate1> Right, so just when we feel most sure about it. I mean if there is some doubt in manifestation, it wont happen, am I right?
<Brulaap> darn, got to go already, hopefully back in a few :)
<Hermestr> each person has his or her reality creating rhythm and you can watch for this. When you are in your peak time, create like crazy and when you are not store your energy up till you feel lots of creative energy around you.
<Brulaap> thanks for the info
<SilkSatin> Hekate... I call those thoughts the "wild monkeys", running freely and with no discipline whatsoever through my mind, intrusive... :)
<Hekate1> Yes... I thought so
<Hekate1> So just when we feel most strongest inside.
<davedave> hmm, disconnected again
<davedave> by the way, what was the answer to the question re: ideal times for energy balls?
<Hermestr> hekate, yes try to follow your own reality creating energy up and downs and you will find your creating much more effective
<Hekate1> Well hermes. Thanks for all your help. I am so glad to have finally been here live.
<Hekate1> Finally taken part.
<Hermestr> davedave: any time is good for an energyball, just don't do two right after each other, make sure you leave some time between them, like an hour
<SilkSatin> Hermes, I heard that powering up the solar plexus charka, sort of gives you a boost in terms of creative energy, is that correct?
<Hermestr> good to have you here hekate
<lotus_an> 2Hermes, I use the energy ball technique integrated into my mental laboratory that I created in the alpha field some time ago, before starting with the ball. I usually do several sorts of things in this lab, healings and daily issues. Could these other thoughts influence in any way the energy ball technique?
<davedave> hermes, re meditation and thoughts, what exactly do you end up focusing your thoughts on if you eliminate all random thoughts
<Hermestr> silksatin: the solar plexus is the most reality creative sensitive part of your body. If you can form energy balls with a bit of energy from your solar plexus you will find it extra potent.
<Hermestr> this is why depression is so bad for reality creating, depression shuts down the solar plexus
<davedave> where is the solar plexus, by the way?
<Hekate1> thanks hermes :)
<SilkSatin> Hermes... any ideas on how dealing with depression through energy/charka healing?
<Hermestr> lotus: any kind of thoughts you have in these powerful energy moments will effect what is created. that is why it is so important to be absolutely focused on what you want to create and leave the rest out of your mind.
<Hermestr> davedave: the solar plexus is located just above the belly button
<davedave> aha
<lotus_an> 2Is it the same with the manipura chakra?
<davedave> if you place your hands over your solar plexus, can you build up energy in this way?
<Hermestr> SilkSatin: first you have to unblock that solar plexus charka to begin removing depression. this will get the reality creating energy flowing again. You can call in the OLAP healers to help you with this. Lie down and hover your hands over the solar plexus and feel the energy pour out of your hands and into the solar plexus. If you have a crystal you can tie it to a string and let it spin in a circle over it as well.
<Hermestr> I would do this once a day
<Hermestr> till you are no longer depressed.
<Hermestr> also it would help to think about positive things in your life and forget about all that you think is wrong with it.
<SilkSatin> oh ok Hermes... I've been doing the energy stretches frequently, but I feel like I need a more in depth work with my solar plexus and the navel charka as well...
<Hermestr> because you would want to capitalize on the energy of the solar plexus and start to create some good things in your life, being you are unblocking the solar plexus.
<Hekate1> I have been having trouble concerning a certain relationship of mine to be positive. I know that it only brings in more negativity when I only see that bad.
<SilkSatin> Hermes... yes... I've been patrolling my thoughts quite a bit lately... trying to stay positive, thinking of better outcomes for crisis etc...
<Hekate1> Its not always bad, I am trying to be more positive, as I want to create more positively in my life.
<davedave> by the way, I know that a good idea is to stay focused on the positive all the time, but from a creation mechanism perspective, if you a re always focused on the good, aren't you keeping that thought energy from entering the vortex
<Hekate1> You have said and I agree that they mirror our inner selves back at us?
<SilkSatin> Hermes... I found that there are some issues to be dealt with in order to be able to keep that positive outlook...it is if some of this issues remain as an open door for the depressing thoughts to invade my mind... is that correct?
<Hermestr> davedave: thoughts are like a radio station broadcasting, they go outward all the time from you and into these vortexes. So if you are constantly thinking good positive thoughts than what you are sending into these vortexes is good positive thoughts, you can't help but to create a wonderful life this way.
<davedave> I see, so you are bombarding the vortex with positivism so to speak
<Hermestr> Hekate: relationships are the mirror to your inner soul. Your partner will often reflect back at you your own inner issues.
<Hermestr> which is why relationships can sometimes be tough
<Hermestr> you have to want to confront some of the dark areas of yourself when in a relationship
<davedave> does it make a difference if the "good" you focus on is good stuff which actually exists in your life or good stuff which you would like to be in your life?
<Hekate1> I would love to be able to be positive all the time.
<Hermestr> however if you can let go of these patterns your chance at having a wonderful relationship will increase ten fold.
<lotus_an> 2 Hermes, in order to use the solar plexus energy to create, one should visualize the energy ball be generated from that area?
<Hermestr> davedave: either one, and both
<SilkSatin> I think I need a ping... :)
<davedave> sounds good
<Hekate1> what if my partner is not quite sure whether he is ready to let go of his patterns?
<SilkSatin> can anyone please ping me? my screen is stuck
<Hekate1> We are thinking about going to counseling, so this shows he is willing... do you think this will help us?
<Hekate1> how do you 'ping?'
<Hermestr> lotus: you can just gently push some energy out the solar plexus into the energy ball. I still use my hands to create the initial ball, but experiment with it.
<electra> Hekate - just disconnect and then come back
<electra> That's what I do
<Hermestr> hekate: well then you have a problem if your partner is not willing to do inner work and you are. You may need a new partner.
<Hermestr> or you will just have to make do and work on yourself for now
<electra> Hey - inner love practice - Go for it
<Hermestr> hekate: that sounds like he is open to working on it
<Hekate1> Yes, I think so.
<Hekate1> But he definitely has his moments.
<SilkSatin> well... lets see if it works now....
<Hekate1> We will see anyway.
<Hermestr> I think most people in a relationship will work on it together if there is love there.
<SilkSatin> anyone can see me?
<davedave> yes
<Hermestr> we see you
<SilkSatin> thank you... my screen was frozen... :)
<Hermestr> Hekate: just you working on releasing your own inner issues has to help
<Hekate1> Yes, the love is definitely there. I definitely working on myself, though I could have a bit more discipline!
<electra> Thank you Hermes for a wonderful workshop - I have got to go now but look forward to reading the log. Bye bye everyone
<lotus_an> 2Thank you, too, Hermes!
<Hekate1> We are both spiritual people, he has a lot of letting go to do.
<SilkSatin> Hermes... I just started in the dream session, and am amazed on how much information on your inner issues you can access from dreams... even at beginners level... :) my question is... I have what I call recurring elements in my dreams, not recurring dreams... and none of them is pleasant... what can that mean?
<Hermestr> well of course time and patience with each other go hand in hand
<Hekate1> definitely helps.
<Hermestr> you can only bend the wood so far, in a spiritual sense, so you may have to only try to evolve as much as each of you can handle and then take a break for a bit.
<davedave> hermes, do you find it to be true, in general, that experiences you cause others to have return back to you, I.e. are then experienced by you yourself?
<Hermestr> silksatin: it means you have to work on those aspects of your life that keep coming up in your dreams
<Hekate1> Yeh, we have taken a step back. twice. We have lived together and separated twice now. he is the father to my daughter.
<Hekate1> So our dreams tell us of issues that need to be dealt with?
<Hermestr> davedave: you are talking about karma and yes it does work. What you do to others in thought or action will always come back at you in some way in your own personal life.
<SilkSatin> Hermes... ex: water is present in my every dream... sometimes the sea, sometimes lake, pool, bath tub... and it is always unpleasant to see it... or even menacing...
<Hermestr> SilkSatin: water in a dream means your emotional life
<SilkSatin> I should mention I love water in my physical life...it is only in my dreams that it assumes that threatening character....
<Hekate1> yes, I thought so....
<Hermestr> if it is unpleasant it means your emotions have to be controlled or leveled
<SilkSatin> Hermes... interesting... that puts it into a new perspective... :) thanks...
<Misery1> Mr Hermes do you have any suggestions on how to stop procrastinating? I have tried different techniques but without success
<SilkSatin> lots of food for thought....
<Hermestr> Misery: yea just do something
<Hermestr> pick something small you can accomplish and just do it
<Hermestr> then move on to bigger things
<Hekate1> do it when you think of it
<davedave> re: karma, does it still hold true for subtler things. I am not talking about murder, crimes, etc. For instance, suppose somebody implicitly looks down or "snubs" someone else - Does that come back to them as well? Suppose you do something that you think is fine, but the "recipient" of the action is extremely sensitive, or is deeply hurt by it --- Does that return to the sender, so to speak, as well, in the form of an equivalent experience
<Hermestr> davedave: yes karma goes down to the most intimate levels
<davedave> hmmm
<Hermestr> if you think unkind thoughts of someone like saying "that person is a jerk" that energy will come back to you.
<Hekate1> what about gossip
<Hermestr> davedave: usually the experiences returned are similar to the one you sent out.
<Hekate1> best to keep away from that web
<davedave> what if you don't think that thought per se, but someone, who is very "sensitive" in terms of personality, thinks you thought that way and still ends up hurt - are you nevertheless responsible?
<Hermestr> which is why if you only create peace and harmony with others, it will come back in your own life.
<Hermestr> it actually is a pretty simple but effective way to clean up your own life.
<Hermestr> hekate: gossip is BAD
<Misery1> what if someone else says cruel things about you
<Hermestr> it destroys others on levels you can't imagine
<Hekate1> Yes, I know!
<Hermestr> it carries tremendous karmic rebound
<Misery1> is it wrong to get angry? does that incur negative karma?
<Hermestr> because so many people participate in it
<Hermestr> Misery depends what you are angry at
<Hekate1> and if you direct your anger at something / someone?
<Hermestr> Misery if someone says something cruel about you it is most likely because you said something cruel about someone else. The best thing to do is to not return the cruel thought and stop the karma there.
<Misery1> so whoever said the cruel thing does not do anything wrong then?
<Hermestr> hekate if you direct your anger at another person than someone else will send angry energy back at you.
<SilkSatin> I sort of thought so Hermes... like it is ok to be angry about injustice, prejudice etc... right? the thing is what you do and how you direct that anger right?
<davedave> this seems very specific, but is it bad karma to ignore people, I.e., not return phone calls
<Misery1> but isn't anger justified when people do injustice?
<davedave> in other words, we're talking about "non-actions" as opposed to actions - can these acts of omission generate bad karma?
<Hekate1> I think it is important to listen to the subtle hints we get form ourselves, if we feel bad that we didn’t return a call, then maybe you should.
<Hermestr> Misery, yes they did something wrong because now they will create that karma coming back at them. I was just noting that in order for someone to say cruel things about you, you would of had to have that karma coming back at you.
<Hermestr> Misery: anger or violence at another is never justified
<Misery1> ! that can't be true
<Hekate1> So the way to stop it is not to begin or continue participating in it.
<Misery1> how can someone not be angry at a murderer or a rapist?!
<davedave> I see, by the way, I am actually referring to other people not returning my calls - I always try to return calls, but sometimes I feel bad when others don't return mine
<Hekate1> Right
<sor--> hi all
<Hekate1> maybe you should let them know...?
<sor--> hi attuned,hermes,fooki:)
<fooki> howdy sor--
<davedave> good point
<Hermestr> ok I think we covered quite a bit here today, so I'm going to go, stay and talk to each other and reflect on what we covered here.
<Hermestr> see you all later
<Hekate1> Thank you hermes...
<lotus_an> 2Hermes, it's so wonderful to hear so many people's thoughts about creation and spiritual issues and be together with all and share during these workshops! Thank you everybody! Have to go now, but it will be another workshop next Tuesday, right, Hermes?
<Hekate1> I agree...
<Hermestr> yes next Tuesday
<SilkSatin> bye and thanks hermes... :)
<Hermestr> take care everyone
<davedave> bye hermes
Session Close: Tue Jan 14 18:38:06 2003