January 7, 2003 (workshop log file)

getting a new job & working out the problems in a bad old job; healing with the nonphysical surgeons (OLAP, ARN, ARAGOTH healers); bad karma and removing karma; the perks of becoming vegetarian; using crystals; good & evil, Satan & Lucifer

January 7, 2003 (workshop log file)

Session Start: Tue Jan 07 16:27:03 2003
Session Ident: #energyworks
* Now talking in #energyworks
* Topic is 'Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood. '
* Set by Gamble-!gamble@chello080110132209.102.11.vie.surfer.at on Mon Jan 06 06:45:06
<Hermestr> howdy
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<Hermestr> hi david
<davdave> hi everyone
<davdave> hi there hermes, good to hear you in a more "live" fashion!
<Hermestr> yes I see you finally made it here
<Hermestr> good to have you
<davdave> thanks
<Hermestr> so how is your reality creating going dave
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<davdave> quite well thanks
<fooki> hi
<Hermestr> hi fook
<davdave> in fact, as you know, I had often been preoccupied these past few months with relationship issues, but I think I’m going to let creative momentum build on that
<davdave> what I mean is I think I've got something positive going, so I'll just let that simmer
<Hermestr> ah great
<Hermestr> good idea, cook it slow
<Hermestr> rice always tastes better when you cook it all day long
<davdave> anyway, the funny thing is that lately, particularly these past few days, I've been preoccupies with concerns not so much about my relationship but about my job, my work, etc.
<davdave> ha ha ha
<Hermestr> well, now that the relationship is working, I guess your psyche is moving on to the next thing to fix up
<davdave> exactly right - in a way, my mind has shifted to another set of "troubles" to sort out
<davdave> in this case, basically, I have no idea what I want to do with my life
<davdave> I mean jobwise, that is
<davdave> lately, these job worries have preoccupied me quite a bit
<Hermestr> are you working now? or you just don't like what you are doing?
<davdave> as a side note though, I'd like to say that, all in all, between stressing about job issues and stressing over relationship love issues, I definitely think I prefer having to stress over job issues - it's not as painful
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<davdave> oh, in answer to your question, yes I am working, but I do not quite like what I am doing
<Hermestr> yea relationships can be harder because your significant other always acts as a mirror to your inner self.
<davdave> yes, that's right, and like I said, all in all, I’m glad that my troubles are in my job area, all in all, I feel that's a bit easier to deal with than when I was totally bummed over my relationship issues
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<davdave> about the job, part of it may be that I don't quite enjoy what I am doing, and I also feel some regret about having quit a job I previously had
<davdave> do you have any advice, hermes, as to how I can get over this regret?
<Hermestr> yea, that can ouch when you let a good thing pass by
<Hermestr> well you can try to recreate it again into your life
<davdave> perhaps
<Hermestr> well not the same job
<davdave> part of me wants to believe that it was right to have left that job
<davdave> I am still not sure
<Hermestr> well then
<davdave> I did leave because I felt like I wasn't being treated well by the people I worked with
<Hermestr> perhaps you can take the best of that last job and use that as a template for a new one
<davdave> yes, certainly it's not like a left a "perfect" job - just a job that, on the surface, seems like a great one
<Hermestr> well see, now you have to ask yourself why you allowed such behavior to manifest in your life.
<davdave> I.e., it was glamorous and paid pretty well
<Hermestr> in that past job
<davdave> oh, as to the unkind behavior, I am not sure
<Hermestr> a part of you allowed those people to treat you that way
<Hermestr> could be a self-worth issue, or perhaps you felt the need for punishment for something you did
<davdave> yes, all that may well have been part of it
<davdave> I think it was also a personality issue
<EMwave> maybe those people were the only problem
<davdave> I have always needed a lot of freedom and autonomy - I could never stand people looking over my shoulder
<davdave> if that makes any sense
<Hermestr> you could of also fell victim to the often bad office energy that floats around
<davdave> here's an interesting though
<davdave> yes, definitely a lot of yelling and cursing going around in that office
<EMwave> office energy = greed lust envy
<Hermestr> there is often this power struggle going on, management against employee. The first rule is to stay out of that energy.
<Hermestr> you can do this but you have to be on guard
<davdave> my interesting observation was that on the day I interviewed for the job I got stomach cramps and then on the first day of actually working at the job I felt very nauseous when my boss took me to lunch with one of his high-powered clients
<davdave> does this indicate anything, in your opinion? does our body give us signals?
<Hermestr> yes sure, there are always signs
<Hermestr> that foretell to you what could happen or what you could be getting into.
<davdave> hmmm, that would be reassuring to know that the job might not have been right for me in the first place
<Hermestr> you could of been picking up on that bad energy wave
<Hermestr> it could of been a warning to you
<davdave> yes
<Hermestr> to stay clear of that job or that energy wave
<davdave> yes, quite possibly
<davdave> here's one thing, though - I quit because a couple of things were "the last straw" for me
<Hermestr> but you did say you liked that job, so something there you liked very much.
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<davdave> looking back, though, this seems impulsive, rash
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<Hermestr> well that moment could of been your way out.
<davdave> yes, it certainly had its "positive" attributes
<Hermestr> so your unconscious mind took it
<davdave> oh, I see
<davdave> so when we make an impulsive decision, it's not always something to regret?
<Hermestr> the last thing you want to do is work at a job that brings you stress
<Hermestr> its not good for the body or the soul
<davdave> yes, I agree
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<Hermestr> no, not at all, sometimes impulsiveness is a defense mechanism because you are reaching the end of what you can endure
<Hermestr> the mind wants to continue but the body and soul just cannot
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<Hermestr> I would say you acted correctly, by talking to you
<Misery1> hello
<Hermestr> hi misery
<davdave> ultimately, I came to that job because it offered the potential for "fun" experiences, travel, etc., but my boss insisted that I slave away and pay my dues first - also, I got the impression he enjoyed "restricting" me just for the sake of restricting me - like I said, I can't take restriction of any form whatsoever
<Hermestr> I think however there is something from that job you needed to learn or experience and that is why you did manifest it despite the warnings.
<davdave> thanks for the encouragement
<davdave> as a side question, here's an underlying issue: does life, like that job, have to be about suffering first? I would hope not
<Hermestr> oh no, suffering is out
<Hermestr> you only learn through suffering when you fail to learn the lesson in a more pleasant manner
<Hermestr> or you keep ignoring the lesson
<Hermestr> when it is presented to you in a more easy to deal with manner
<davdave> in other words, why can't there be a job where you do have a great time from start to finish, where you are encouraged to have fun, and if you want to do something, your boss says GO FOR IT!!!
<davdave> right: my question re: suffering was more hypothetical
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<davdave> I meant, rhetorical.... you know what I mean...
<Hermestr> you can create such jobs, yes
<Hermestr> and you do an have done so in the past
<davdave> I have?
<Hermestr> just think about how wonderful a job usually is at the first start
<Hermestr> it is usually only after a few weeks or months that the job takes a turn for the worse
<davdave> what about creativity in jobs?
<Hermestr> sure, there are lots of jobs where people are give full creative freedom
<Hermestr> it is all how you create the job from the start
<Hermestr> you have to be careful to mix in just what you want from this not yet manifested job
<Hermestr> any shortcomings you add in there will be there as well
<Hermestr> you should never settle when you are creating something new like a job
<davdave> could you elaborate a bit on this.....
<Hermestr> well you may think you have to compromise to get some kind of job
<davdave> exactly, the whole issue of compromise is there
<Hermestr> so you say, I will take a job doing this that I don't like that much if the money is there.
<davdave> the whole underlying philosophy of the workplace is that work is supposed to be tough, and that you've got to pay your dues - this is where my "comment" re: suffering came in earlier
<Hermestr> you have not compromised your creation before it is even created
<Hermestr> yes but that is just your belief about the workplace environment
<Hermestr> it does not have to be that way
<Hermestr> I've risen to the top in organizations in a few short months
<Hermestr> without paying and dues
<Hermestr> any dues^
<EMwave> hermes, if someone is a weary cynic who is always unimpressed, has that person lived many earth lifetimes before?
<davdave> so, contrary to my (former) boss's mentality, it's not just about "putting your head down and working" - there can and should be some joy in there as well
<Hermestr> yes your boss was just trying to see how far he could control you, had you thrown that control back at him he would not of been able to enforce that on you.
<davdave> I guess my way of throwing it back at him was by quitting... he he he
<Hermestr> well you could of just stood firm in your own belief and not taken on that belief from him
<davdave> yes, you are right as well
<davdave> again, maybe I shouldn't have quit.....
<Hermestr> Emwave: that just sounds like a person that is tired and needs a rest from whatever they are creating in their life at present.
<davdave> how can I get out of this regret that I did quit, I guess
<Hermestr> well you can I should this or that all day, the past is gone, now you have to take those lessons and apply them to this new job creation
<Hermestr> every job is just a step toward something greater or better
<davdave> also, I have in mind two points you made in earlier chats: 1) we can transform or be transformed by what we face and 2) everything, literally EVERYTHING, that happens, is perfect
<Hermestr> so you took that step, and now you can take another
<davdave> if point 2 is correct, does this mean it was "perfect" that I quit
<Hermestr> sure, it was perfect that you quit
<Hermestr> every moment is perfect
<Hermestr> even though you may not think so.
<Hermestr> whatever the choice that is made you will create the best out of that circumstance
<davdave> I would like to think so, but it's hard to implement this in practice
<Hermestr> true, but it does free you from regret
<davdave> basically, sounds like I should dive into a brand new job creation
<Hermestr> yes, that is what we are talking about here, creating something new from the ashes of the old
<davdave> perhaps this one will have the positive elements of the job I quit minus the negative elements
<Hermestr> yes it can
<Hermestr> just don't add those negative elements into the mix as you are mentally constructing this job
<Hermestr> refuse to settle for anything less than perfect
<Hermestr> you create every aspect of every job
<Hermestr> if this is surely the case
<davdave> also, perhaps I should stop "looking" at my old job, if you know what I mean
<Misery1> what if you don't know all aspects of the desired job?
<Hermestr> than you have created the undesirable elements as well
<Hermestr> Misery, just don't put anything into that creation that is less than perfect in your own mind.
<davdave> I would like to be able to mentally free myself from the consciousness of "missing out" on something with regards to my old job
<Misery1> but does the mental creation has to address *every* aspect before it manifests?
<Misery1> has=have
<Hermestr> of course this is not a perfect world and you are here to learn how to create greater harmony, so if a reality creation falls short, than learn why it did and do better the next time.
<lotus_an> 5Hello, Hermes and all! A good year with wonderful reality creation to everybody! Hermes, for an emotional healing, the ARAGOTH has to be invoked instead of OLAP or ARN?
<EMwave> regret is because he has envy for his replacement
<Hermestr> Misery, creating a job (or anything) is like building a house. If you put in substandarded parts or low expectations you will build a crappy house.
<davdave> emwave, would you elaborate, please?
<Hermestr> The ARN would probably be better, The ARAGOTH can be called in if it is a karma issue
<EMwave> free yourself from envy then you will free yourself from missing out
<Misery1> I don’t think it's envy so much, as fear
<Misery1> fear of failing
<davdave> I’m not sure it's envy per se, just so much a worry that things will come back to haunt me, I.e., mistakes of making a poor decision
<davdave> right, as misery said
<EMwave> fear is negative, caused by other negative emotions
<EMwave> look at the topic title
<Hermestr> well you can always adjust a creation as it unfolds, if you find something going out of whack; just change your thinking or expectations in that area.
<davdave> okay
<lotus_an> 5So the ARN has to do with more than the physical archetypes? And how can one know if it's about a karmic issue or not, I mean, if he is a beginner in healing?
<davdave> hermes, do you think if I can mentally enter a consciousness of "no regret" (if that makes sense) this will improve my situation
<davdave> as you say, stepping into a new consciousness is like stepping into a new room
<Hermestr> yes of course dave, let go of the regret over the past decision, it was perfect for that moment. and use all you have learned to create something new and wonderful for yourself.
<davdave> all right, I'll try my best
<davdave> anyway, I seem to have taken up a lot of other's people time with a rather mundane topic (job dissatisfaction)
<davdave> on a more metaphysical note
<davdave> I noticed the following
<davdave> I happened to be thinking a lot lately about a particular person
<Hermestr> Lotus: the ARN deal with templates and the emotional template is one that everyone has, so you can call them in to adjust this template if there is a problem with it. It usually is a karma issue if that person tends to draw this imbalance in over and over again.
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<Attuned> hi all
<davdave> then I started noticing that I saw a lot of people that physically resembled this person around me in my life (e.g., in the subway, on the street)
<davdave> hermes, what do you think about that?
<Misery1> Mr. Hermes, regarding job dissatisfaction & suffering in general, how do we know that it isn't best to suffer because we might have negative karma? Doesn't karma mean having to pay for past mistakes?
<EMwave> its Mr. Trismegistus, actually
<Hermestr> dave: when you send energy out to the universe to create a certain type of person in your life, the universe starts to pull into your reality this type of person in looks and in personality.
<Hermestr> Mr. Hermes or Hermes is fine
<Hermestr> karma and jobs: well there is karma going on but not to the degree that you think.
<Hermestr> karma is only effective till you learn the lesson it teaches you
<davdave> hmmm, so in your opinion, there's a definite connection between the thoughts I had and the fact that I encountered a lot of people who looked like the person
<Hermestr> it is not meant to inflict pain and suffering for any particular lenght of time
<Hermestr> if you feel karma is acting against you, than you have to examine the lesson it is tell you to learn, learn this lesson, change that behavior and then the karma will go away.
<Misery1> how do you know when the lesson has been learned?
<lotus_an> 5If you call the "wrong guys" for a certain issue, for example the OLAP instead of the ARAGOTH, or vice-versa, do they tell you that? Something like "You should better call those guys for that, not us."?
<Hermestr> well Misery if you don't know what that lesson is than you won't know when it was learned
<Hermestr> so the first step in removing a karmic issue is to identify the lesson it teaches you.
<Misery1> no EMwave, remember Mr Frodo?
<Hermestr> lotus: yes they will often correct you when you call in the wrong guys, or they will say, we will do what we can but this is out of our capabilities.
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<EMwave> no
<Misery1> pity you EMwave
<Hermestr> dave: yes you can see this instantly, you think of a certain type of person and then you will see that person's type all around you. You can do it with cars as well. You think about a certain car and than you will see that car wherever you go.
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<Misery1> how do you identify the lesson?
<Hermestr> dave: your creative energy is pulling in these things into your reality. Your mind is very powerful, your thoughts instantly create.
<EMwave> misery's pain never ends
<davdave> wow, so it seems
<Hermestr> well examine the restriction the karma places on you, what does it prevent you from doing?
<lotus_an> 5Hermes, could the ARN or the ARAGOTH invocation be integrated in a magick ritual and formula, like the OLAP invocation?
<Hermestr> lotus: yes it can, I just used the OLAP as an example
<Misery1> no EMwave, pain is not knowing who MR Frodo is
<Hermestr> a karmic reaction is the direct result of some miss-application of reality creating energy on your part...
<EMwave> does anyone know this person?
<Misery1> hehe
<Misery1> he's a hobbit
<Hermestr> for example, you constantly talk badly about others when they are not around...
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<davdave> misery, I take it you're a bit LOTR fan?
<Hermestr> so when others talk about you when you are not around it is of bad content. so you get a bad reputation wherever you go.
<davdave> bit=big
<Misery1> davdave yes I just became a fan 8 days ago
<Hermestr> to change this karmic energy coming back at you, stop talking badly about others.
<davdave> just saw theTwoTowers?
<Misery1> yes :)
<davdave> good movie, eh?
<Misery1> fantastic
<davdave> yes, I agree
<Misery1> Mr. Hermes have you seen it?
<Hermestr> not yet
<Misery1> but have you read Tolkien?
<Hermestr> Tolkien? does not sound familiar
<Misery1> The Lord of the Rings
<lotus_an> 5When you perform a magick ritual do you necessarily have to know exactly the room orientation or can you just consider conventionally the 4 cardinal points?
<Misery1> I was going to ask you whether elves are real
<Hermestr> lotus: it helps to know about where the real cardinal points are and try to orient the your space as close to it as possible.
<davdave> hermes, here's a very simple question
<davdave> I've been vegetarian for about three months now
<Hermestr> Misery: I saw the first Lord of the Rings, not the second
<davdave> but I am experiencing strong cravings re: eating meat again
<davdave> what does one do when one is faced with this sort of dilemma?
<Misery1> so do you think the elves are real? in the book they are described so perfectly you would swear they must be real
<EMwave> misery is confusing fantasy with reality
<Hermestr> dave: it sounds like a protein deficiency eat more protein
<lotus_an> 5Is it helpful to perform the reality creation technique with the energy ball in a triangle of crystals?
<davdave> okay, will that cure the actual craving for the taste of steak, though?
<Misery1> oh and MR Hermes, do the discarnate entities ever look like those black Orcs?
<Hermestr> soy products, or tufo, or peanut butter
<Misery1> EMwave sometimes there's more truth in fantasy than reality
<EMwave> so misery suggesting artists travel astrally to get their ideas
<Misery1> yes EMwave that possibility has occurred to me
<Misery1> perhaps Tolkien was inspired
<EMwave> they create the fantasy in the astral, if hermes saw it that doesn't mean it is real
<Hermestr> lotus: I always do my magick inside my crystal circle to enhance it.
<Hermestr> dave: you are only getting that craving because the body does not know any other protien sources in its memory bank to use on you.
<EMwave> is hermes a vegetarian?
<davdave> I think I'll have a nice tofu burger tonight! :)
<Hermestr> yes I am a vegetarian
<Hermestr> been one for long time
<EMwave> why?
<davdave> hermes, I noticed in your website that you went vegetarian over a period of one year
<Hermestr> meat, chicken, and fish ground out my energy too much
<davdave> in my case, I pretty much went "cold turkey" as of three months ago - is there a reason why doing it gradually would be better?
<Hermestr> yes it took a year to make a complete transition, I ate less and less meat then just stopped completely
<Hermestr> dave: no use whatever is best for you
<Hermestr> I had a hard time giving up big macs
<davdave> by the way, is better "reality creating" one of the nice perks of being a vegetarian, in your experience?
<EMwave> so why do athletes eat allot of meat?
<EMwave> are they delusional?
<lotus_an> 5So both reality creation technique and magick rituals have to gain from using crystals, right? But in this case is it to be concerned with the trajectory the energy ball would follow in the energetic circuit created by the crystals, instead of being directly absorbed by the vortex which has to "digest" it?
<Hermestr> I found that the meat grounds my higher spiritual energies too much
<Hermestr> yes may find it easier to reality create without having to deal with the lower energy that the meat brings into your system.
<davdave> another simple question: can energyballs be used to change the past that you recall?
<EMwave> is it the chemicals in the meat or the killing of an animal that causes the grounding?
<Hermestr> dave: yes you can make energyballs to change/heal your past as well.
<Hermestr> emwave: both
<davdave> wonderful
<Hermestr> emwave: but more the later
<Hermestr> animals have lots of lower emotions and fears in them
<Hermestr> when you eat the meat this transfers into the human energy system
<Hermestr> as such you have to do something with this energy
<Hermestr> it can for example make you more aggressive if you have tendencies toward that
<Hermestr> or more fearful if you have tendencies toward that
<Misery1> I think elves must be vegetarian then
<Hermestr> could be I never met an elf
<Misery1> :)
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<davedave> hi guys, just got disconnected
<Hermestr> yea that can happen
<davedave> what are we talking about now?
<Hermestr> eating meat was the last
<davedave> yes, now I remember
<Hermestr> but we can move on to something else
<Misery1> I have a question, is Satan real?
<Misery1> I mean, an actual entity that represents evil and seeks to do evil
<Hermestr> There is a dark force that works to undo humanity
<Hermestr> there are some real evil entities out there
<lotus_an> 5For a beginner in crystal meditation about how long and how large have the 4 crystals of the triangle to be? Regarding the form, they should have to be about a sharpened pen-like, right?
<Misery1> are they different from us in some way? are they created to represent evil, or do they have free will and chose evil?
<Hermestr> I have never come across a Satan entity, but have come across Archangel Lucfer
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<Misery1> but isn't Lucifer Satan?
<davedave> did I just get disconnected?
<davedave> I guess not
<EMwave> but why should there be such dark forces in existence?
<EMwave> what is the point?
<Hermestr> Lucifer is an angel, Satan is a human construct of evil
<Misery1> oh
<Hermestr> but at times people will use the two names interchangeably
<Hermestr> lotus: 1/2 wide to 1 inch wide, 1.5 inches long to 2 or more inches long
<lotus_an> 5In your diagrams, the arrows indicate the points of the crystals?
<Hermestr> lotus: the crystals face inward
<Hermestr> they should have some points on them
<davedave> hermes, here's a question: you've mentioned in the past that sometime it is useful to consult things like tarot cards. Also, you've mentioned that sometimes things like astrology, fortunetelling are simply a trap and that ultimately if you really are a reality creator, you have no use for things like divination, etc. How do you tell when it's right to use tarot cards, and when it's right to put them aside?
<Misery1> Mr Hermes, is Lucifer really all evil? will he never be redeemed? and did you feel any pity for him?
<Hermestr> dave: tarot cards are useful in the beginning of learning how to focus your thoughts. they can reveal where your reality creating is not going as planed and why. At some point you will not need them any more because you will be very good at the process.
<EMwave> of course the dark one has to be redeemed, otherwise why create him?
<davedave> I see, so the turning point is the point at which you feel you've established some skill at reality creating
<Hermestr> Misery: Lucifer's energy is one that brings up to the surface all that is impure within you. He is not evil in the sense of the word you are using it. His energy brings the evil out of you if you posses it within you.
<Hermestr> dave: yes exactly
<davedave> also, hermes, do you have any thoughts, experience, or opinion with the I ching?
<Misery1> but why should anything impure exist within us in the first place? where does that come from?
<Hermestr> dave, you will find yourself naturally using the tarot less and less as you get better at it.
<lotus_an> 5So they are disposed all in an horizontal plane at the level of manipura chakra? An what do you mean "some points on them"? Shouldn't I choose the sharpened pencil-like form, so with only one point?
<Hermestr> misery, you put it there, you have to remove it
<EMwave> you create your own demons
<Misery1> yes, but in order for us to have the option of choosing evil/impurity, it has to exist in the world; so who created it
<Hermestr> lotus: I mean a crystal with the eight points, not the round piece of quartz rocks you can pick up that have been tumbled.
<Hermestr> lotus: the points don't have to be perfect
<Hermestr> lotus: just that it was not shaved down
<EMwave> misery there exist emotions that can turn you to the dark side or not, your choice
<Hermestr> lotus: in its natural sate
<Hermestr> state^
<Misery1> EMwave, but why does the dark side exist in the first place?
<Hermestr> misrery, you put all the darkness within you yourself everyday, you can remove it just as easy as you put it there
<Hermestr> the dark side exists to show you the consequences of your actions
<EMwave> the dark side exists, because other have traveled before you to chart a path for others to follow
<EMwave> blame it on the ancients
<Attuned> what do you mean Satan is a human construct of evil?
<Misery1> but is Lucifer a servant of God?
<Misery1> does he fulfill a role, or is he really fallen as the Bible says
<Hermestr> Satan is all the evil thoughts of humans put together. he is not real in a sense, because he is created by every dark thought there is. The term Satan has become a focal point for dark energy.
<Hermestr> Satan was originally contrived by the Catholic church in the 1600's or there about
<Hermestr> I’m not up on my history exactly
<lotus_an> 5If they have several points, so they are not of the form of an arrow, then what does it mean "they face" the triangle? Should I just choose a front side for each one of them?
<Hermestr> lotus: if they are double terminated than it does not matter which point goes inward
<Misery1> how does the evil mass of thoughts called Satan act? is it actively malicious in that it seeks to undermine us and pull us to darkness, or is is passive and therefore a matter of whether we choose it or not?
<davedave> hermes, here's a question re: jobs again. Do you believe that each person in the world has some special skill, some "ideal" profession? And if so, what would be a good way to discover what that skill is?
<EMwave> he already explained it is the latter, misery
<davedave> also, how did you end up finding the line of work you now do?
<lotus_an> 5Should all of the 4 crystals be about the same size, form and kind of quartz?
<Hermestr> dave: you just have to focus on finding something you like and then follow the steps or path to get there
<Hermestr> dave: you most likely can like doing many things
<davedave> ah, true....
<Hermestr> dave: most people today are not restricted to just one skill or goal
<Misery1> does Lucifer have 'servants' ie what the Bible calls demons?
<Hermestr> Misery: yes the Aethyrs are full of demons and angels
<Misery1> do the demons and angels ever have battles?
<Hermestr> no not really
<davedave> hermes, I was wondering if you had any particular experience with or thoughts on the I-Ching?
<Hermestr> they are archetypes
<Hermestr> they represent the choice that you can make
<Misery1> you mean they are not real?
<Hermestr> Misery: I did not say they were not real
<Misery1> I mean, not real in the sense a thought is real, but the way we are real
<Hermestr> I said they represent on a symbolic level the things you need to learn and choose from
<Hermestr> dave: I only used I-Ching once, and found it nice
<Hermestr> dave: it was at a party
<lotus_an> 5Hermes, should all of the 4 crystals of the triangle be about the same size, form and kind of quartz?
<Hermestr> dave: it can be used in place of tarot cards if you like
<Misery1> but are they real beings, or like Satan a collection of our thoughts?
<Hermestr> Misrey, the demons in the Aethyrs are real
<davedave> yes, that 's what I was wondering - basically, it seems all these "oracles" have a lot in common
<Misery1> but why don't they fight?
<Misery1> don’t they have swords and stuff?
<Hermestr> Misery the fight is within yourself
<Hermestr> not out in the universe
<Hermestr> the universe is perfect and always in perfect harmony
<Misery1> then why are we not perfect and always at harmony? aren't we of the universe?
<Hermestr> because you choose not to be perfect
<Hermestr> you believe you are flawed
<EMwave> choosing that name is a hint
<Hermestr> yea a good hint'
<Hermestr> :)
<Misery1> nope
<Misery1> just because event A occurs after event B doesn't mean event A caused event B
<EMwave> in physics it does
<EMwave> it is called causal
<Hermestr> dave, find one that works for you as a oracle and use it when you feel unsure about something you want to create. Ask things like, what if I create this what will be the outcome.
<Misery1> it does!? so if the dog barks and then pees, the barking made him pee?? excuse the imagery
<davedave> okay
<davedave> ultimately, though, regardless of the answer, the "real" answer is that the outcome is whatever you choose, though?
<Misery1> how do we know?
<Misery1> maybe someone else chose for us
<davedave> I mean, ultimately, if you can create your own reality, then you will dictate what the outcome will be
<Misery1> yes unless someone else's reality creation is more powerful then your own, then they choose for you
<Misery1> which is what happens I think to children; parents and society create their reality
<lotus_an> 5Hermes, could you please answer my question about similar or not form and size of all the 4 crystals?
<Hermestr> lotus I did
<Hermestr> wait
<Hermestr> lotus: they can be of various sizes
<Hermestr> ok have to go, good chat, will catch everyone next week.
* Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Jan 07 18:28:33 2003