December 24, 2002 (workshop log file)

Holidays in the nonphysical plane; how is time measured in the nonphysical plane; when to use magick and when to use reality creating; karma and karmic reactions from magick and other actions

December 24, 2002 (workshop log file)

Session Start: Tue Dec 24 16:33:29 2002
Session Ident: #energyworks
* Now talking in #energyworks
* Topic is 'Nothing in life is to be feared. It is only to be understood. '
* Set by Gamble-!gamble@chello080110132209.102.11.vie.surfer.at on Sat Dec 14 16:11:46
<Hermestr> howdy,
<Hermestr> happy holiday and merry Christmas to everyone
<Hermestr> I have a thunderstorm here, so if I disappear it is because the storm is too bad to risk the DSL modem getting damage
<Bose> are these celebrated in the astral plane?
<Hermestr> actually no
<Hermestr> I could not find any kind of celebrations the way we have them in the nonphysical
<Hermestr> there is however
<Hermestr> a nice Christmas village in Malkuth that you can visit at any time
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<Hermestr> its always Christmas there, so I guess there is no need to celebrate it on a certain day. Just go to the place where it is all the time.
<Hermestr> I thought it odd at first that there were no celebrations of days like we have here
<Hermestr> but a day has no meaning there in the nonphysical, if you think about it
<Bose> there are no religions there?
<Hermestr> in Malkuth you will find regions devoted to a particular religion
<Hermestr> and people may say they are this or that
<Hermestr> but for the most part the real nonphysical people do not have any one religion that they can call their own
<Bose> So what is Malkuth?
<lotus_an> 5Hermes, the message from you and the possibility to take part in this workshop are the nicest Christmas presents for me!
<Hermestr> Malkuth is located at the base of the Tree of Life. it occupies the etheric plane. It is where creativity and structures come from
<Hermestr> Glad to be here lotus
<Hermestr> Malkuth encompasses the earth but goes way beyond it as well
<Hermestr> you could say the physical plane on the planet is a small part of Malkuth, but to be more precise Malkuth starts on the etheric plane
<Hermestr> http://www.wisdomsdoor.com/tol/malkuth.php
<Bose> what do you mean a day has no meaning in the non physical?
<Hermestr> there are no days
<Hermestr> there is no sunrise or sunset
<Bose> so how is time measured?
<Hermestr> time does not exist in the nonphysical
<Hermestr> everything is there, past, present, future
<lotus_an> 5I'm writing with one hand because with the other Im holding my sleeping baby... Anyway, Hermes, I would like to know if it makes sense to work both with energy balls and magick in the same period of time and for the same target. How would that change the result?
<Hermestr> you move through time in the nonphysical just as easily as you move through a room
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<Hermestr> lotus, it would be best to separate the two by at least 3 hours
<Hermestr> you could cross connect the energy and not manifest anything
<Hermestr> also when doing magick it is best to do only one thing at a time in any ritual
<Hermestr> if you have two things you need to work
<Hermestr> then it is best to work one and the other at least three hours later
<Hermestr> that way you will not again cross connect the two actions
<Hermestr> welcome back electra
<electra2> hi Hermes
<Hermestr> the nonphysical is very different from the physical plane
<Bose> but when you are in the astral plane time passes in the physical (someone sees you asleep), so time also passes in the non physical because you did activities
<electra2> only disappeared for 30 secs and when I got back there u were
<Hermestr> time can move in the physical when you are nonphysical, but it can do so either fast, slow, or none at all
<Hermestr> it depends on the insertion point back into the body
<Hermestr> once you step out of the body you are out of time
<Hermestr> so you can come back a moment later if you like
<Bose> so the physical earth passing thru 1000 years can seem a few seconds in the astral?
<Hermestr> or even before you left
<Hermestr> now there is a brain teaser
<Hermestr> yes, but time does not actually pass
<Hermestr> it is the point you return to the body
<lotus_an> 5Which work frequency would be ideal for a good result in the case of magick and which in the case of energy balls?
<Hermestr> when you exit the body and you look at physical plane it can seem like a ruler with graduations on it. each graduation can be a time moment. You can leave one graduation and return in another
<Hermestr> generally speaking your sub-conscious mind returns you to a point near where you left, as an automatic process
<Hermestr> well the use of the word mind there may not be right, but you get the idea
<Hermestr> this is why some dreams time passes faster or slower upon returning
<Hermestr> time does not pass when you are out of the body.
<Bose> so why don't you win the lottery by returning to the past with the future numbers?
<Hermestr> go for it
<Hermestr> you will find that navigating through time and probabilities is not so easy
<Hermestr> lotus: I like to do energy balls once to three times a day for something
<lotus_an> 5If when one steps out from the body he's out of time, does this mean his physical body remains unchanged during the astral travel, I mean, it doesn't get old?
<Hermestr> lotus: I do magick on something only once, then again in a few days if nothing has happened
<Hermestr> in a sense you are out of time, it does not exist while you are out.
<Hermestr> not even the body
<Hermestr> when you return you return usually to a time click near when you left
<Hermestr> so the body will age when you are out
<Hermestr> in the sense you are asking the question
<Hermestr> as the body is part of the time and space framework of the physical reality
<Hermestr> if you leave the body at 14:50 and return to the body at 14:52 your body will age 2 minutes
<Hermestr> however you may have been out of the body in what seemed like years
<Hermestr> but the body only aged two minutes because you returned to the body only two minutes after you left it
<Hermestr> now of course the perception of time passing in the nonphysical is a measure of your mind trying to put some sense on an event that does not exist inside time and space.
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<Hermestr> so to say that a year of nonphysical time passed by while you were out is not actually accurate
<Hermestr> but it does make the mind feel better, having some time-framework to base the event on.
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<Bose> If you have intensions to just have fun in the astral, does it result in unsuccessful projections?
<Hermestr> you can have successful projections with that goal in mind
<Hermestr> but it does help if you have some kind of self-evolutionary goal in mind
<lotus_an> 5Ok, I understand. Hermes, has a mother the right to create certain qualities in her little child's character? For example inner strength, determination, courage, kindness, etc.?
<Hermestr> lotus: you would have to do some meditations on it to see if you are trying to create something in the child that it does not want or need. Being the child's mother you are afforded other rights over it, so it could be appropriate to help the child acquire those qualities if they need it.
<Hermestr> the child has entrusted you to a point to help it in its early stages in physical reality
<Hermestr> so you can at times help it with more energy in one area. But I would meditate on it before doing it.
<Bose> If I now visualize/imagine something, does it appear in the astral?
<Hermestr> it depends on the intent
<Hermestr> with emotion behind it, it will appear on the astral plane
<Hermestr> if it is just a visualization it will appear on the mental plane
<Hermestr> if it is in both planes it may then appear on the etheric plane
<Bose> will astral dwellers see it, and will it become permanent?
<Hermestr> in most cases it will not be permanent, and astral dwellers will see it
<Hermestr> if you do not keep putting energy into these things they will fade away
<Bose> so are we polluting the astral with our thoughts?
<Hermestr> well your thoughts will go someplace
<Hermestr> I would not call it polluting
<Hermestr> thoughts have to go someplace
<Hermestr> it is a natural part of a thoughts existence
<Hermestr> it is created, goes someplace, and then fades away as the energy that created it dissipates
<Bose> like sound waves?
<Hermestr> yes
<lotus_an> 5Hermes, what kind of meditation you're referring at? Is it the one in which is intended to obtain the mind's emptiness, or maybe one in which one tries contacting his subtle spiritual guide?
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<Hermestr> lotus: what I do is ask the question to myself of whether or not I should weild this energy to make this change..
<Hermestr> then clear my mind
<Hermestr> then wait to see what happens
<Hermestr> I may see things
<Hermestr> or hear things
<Hermestr> or just feel things
<Hermestr> If not clear answer presents itself to me, I will try again in another meditation later
<Hermestr> if I still get no answer I will do nothing, perhaps the time is not right
<Hermestr> but you can also
<Hermestr> ask your spirit guide to help you as well
<Hermestr> you could also throw down some tarot cards on the issue to see if the creation is in harmony or not
<Hermestr> of course in things like helping someone with courage, strength, and protection these things are needed by just about anyone
<Hermestr> you may not have to do a meditation on something like this
<Hermestr> but I did go into it in this way to show you that for the more complex choices, some thought on your magical action is needed.
<Hermestr> for example two of your close friends are not speaking to each other. Do you use magick or not to send energy to help them come together.
<Hermestr> this is a more complex issue and you would have to be clear that the energy you send will be for the highest good of all involved
<Hermestr> so you may want to meditate on it first or do some tarot card spreads on the issue
<lotus_an> 5Maybe I should rather try to create some harmony with the energy balls, what would you do?
<Hermestr> is this in the case of the child?
<Hermestr> you can always safely create harmony with any situation
<lotus_an> 5Ok, so it's always better to "ask" first.
<lotus_an> 5No, it was for the case of 2 friends.
<Hermestr> ah
<Hermestr> yes that would be best, if you wanted to do something but not go out on a limb with your magick,
<Hermestr> you can make and energy ball of harmony and send it out to your friends
<Hermestr> they will use it or not in this case.
<Hermestr> energyballs of peace, love, harmony, are fairly safe to send to anyone
<lotus_an> 5Hermes, did you have accidents with magick? Or do you know people that had? Could you give some examples?
<Hermestr> hummm
<lotus_an> 5But what about the same qualities created with magick?
<Hermestr> you may have to be more careful with magick, because it is much more powerful. I would always meditate on it or ask your inner self if this action feels right
<Hermestr> in powerful
<Hermestr> I mean there are no karmic safety mechanism in magick
<Hermestr> magick
<Hermestr> it will cause a change and if you invoke a karmic reaction because of it, it comes right back to you
<Hermestr> with the energyball or reality creating energy there are some karmic safety mechanisms that will block a inharmonious creation at first
<Bose> what causes it to come back to you?
<Hermestr> if the energy you sent out creates disharmony in some way
<Hermestr> it then comes back to you and creates disharmony within your own life
<Bose> even if you had no ill intention?
<Hermestr> yep, regardless of your intention
<Hermestr> you are 100% responsible for every thought you have and what effect it has on others
<Hermestr> with magick even more so
<Hermestr> because the karmic rebound is instant
<Hermestr> or almost instant
<Bose> what of a soldier in war carrying out duties to kill?
<Hermestr> he is responsible
<Hermestr> for his actions
<Hermestr> that karma will come back to him in some way
<Bose> even if he thinks he is saving his own people?
<Hermestr> the action creates the karma
<Hermestr> it does not matter what he thinks
<Hermestr> you can see why mankind is so much trapped in endless reincarnating cycles
<Bose> why?
<Hermestr> because how many actions create disharmony and a karmic wave that comes back at you
<lotus_an> 5Ok, but the thoughts are creative, as well, right? My question about any examples was not personal, I was just interested to hear about somebody's concrete experience, it doesn't matter who's.
<Hermestr> this wave is like an anchor
<Hermestr> it holds you down to the physical plane and prevents you from ascending
<Hermestr> lotus, yea I was trying to think of something that would be an example of a magick backfiring
<Hermestr> this may be a bit extreme of an example
<Hermestr> you have two friends not speaking to each other
<Hermestr> so you do magick to create these two speaking again
<Hermestr> the energy goes out and creates the two of them get sick from something they ate and wind up in the same hospital room.
<Hermestr> where they have to talk to each other
<Hermestr> in this example your magick had a backfire of creating the outcome through disharmony
<Hermestr> in this case the energy was not perfectly formed correctly in the mind, or your energy was forcing a reconciliation before it was the most harmonious time to do so.
<lotus_an> 5But that would then have a negative effect on me, as well, right?
<Hermestr> yes it would come back to you in some way
<Hermestr> most likely you would be forced to do something you were not ready to do
<Hermestr> and then you would learn the lesson that there is a time and place for everything, even the reconciliation of two friends.
<Bose> Are there any unkind forces in astral that want disharmony on the physical?
<Hermestr> so the next time you did something like this, you would take this into account and may have to wait weeks or months before sending out the magick
<lotus_an> 5Yes, I was thinking of something like that...
<Hermestr> Bose: sure
<Bose> are they influencing politicians?
<Hermestr> sure, they will influence anyone they can, they pry on their weaknesses
<Hermestr> if a politician has a weakness for greed
<Hermestr> than these demons will work on the politician's geed to create disharmony
<Hermestr> and of course there are the forces of light as well
<Hermestr> that work to bring out a person's good natures
<Bose> are the demons attracted to the emotion, and be quite ignorant of who the person is?
<Hermestr> they like strong emotions, fears, lower passions
<Hermestr> they don't care who they get it from
<Hermestr> there are enough of these guys around all the time and enough people emitting lower emotions that these demons do not have to be picky
<Bose> but strong emotions can be innocent, like enjoying a film?
<Bose> or sport?
<Hermestr> well mostly the lower emotions
<Hermestr> fear, hatred
<Hermestr> anger
<Hermestr> lust
<Hermestr> those seven deadly sins that the bible talks about
<Hermestr> the higher things like joy and love, demons are not much interested in those.
<lotus_an> 5What could one expect as duration of the results of the reality creation and what about the duration of the results with magick?
<Hermestr> lotus: could be minutes, days, or a weeks. Depends on the size of what you are trying to create
<Hermestr> if you are trying to create a phone call it could happen in minutes
<Hermestr> if you are trying to create a new car it could take months
<Hermestr> it depends on how much energy has to be shifted around to make it happen
<Hermestr> and what blockages are in the way that have to be removed first.
<lotus_an> 5I was not referring now at the duration of the process of creation, but at how long could last the results once created. Say I intend to create a certain quality in myself. Or I intend to create prosperity in my life.
<Hermestr> in the physical plane creations are not permanent
<Hermestr> so you would have to keep adding to it from time to time or you will lose it
<Hermestr> with a quality at some point it would become your own
<Hermestr> but you would have to work on keeping this quality by sending energy or doing some actions to keep this quality there, till it cements itself into your psyche.
<Hermestr> there is momentum with creations
<Hermestr> as the creation gets going faster and faster
<Hermestr> the natural momentum of it will keep it going with less and less energy from you
<Hermestr> but you will still have to every now and then affirm that this is the direction you want to keep creating.
<Hermestr> for example
<Hermestr> lets say you create a new job
<Hermestr> or your own business
<Hermestr> and so people send you contracts to do this job
<Hermestr> at first you work real hard at manifesting one or two contracts a month
<Hermestr> then it starts to get easier
<Hermestr> the momentum starts to take it on its own and now you have 4 or 6 contracts coming in.
<Hermestr> and you spend much less time sending out energy waves to create more contracts.
<Hermestr> now let's say you start turning down contracts
<Hermestr> if you do this enough you will slow down the momentum of wealth you have going
<Hermestr> and you will be back where you started.
<Hermestr> so in this case, to keep the momentum going
<Hermestr> you would have to make sure you do not refuse too many contracts
<Hermestr> ok, I'm going to end this session for now. I think you have enough to think about for now and I got to get on to Christmas Eve stuff.
<Hermestr> nice seeing everyone
<Hermestr> have a great Christmas and will catch you again later this week or next week.
* Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Dec 24 18:04:37 2002