suicides; retrieving people trapped in hellish dimensions; karma, reality creating painful and negative things; the death penalty
December 6, 2001 (workshop log file)

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Session Start: Tue Dec 04 16:41:11 2001
*** Now talking in #energyworks
*** Topic is 'A teacher affects eternity; He can never tell where his influence stops. '
<Hermes`> hello, every empty room
<jsn> hi, brb
<Hermes`> echo echo echo
<fooki> hi
<Hermes`> hi fook
<Hermes`> I got your e-mail and sent off a reply
<fooki> yes I read it already
*** Gamble- sets mode: +o jsn
<Hermes`> so how is everyone today
<jsn> doing good, I have question
<Hermes`> sure go ahead
<jsn> hey Attuned
<Attuned3> hi room
<Hermes`> hi attuned
<jsn> Now we're here to learn certain things. how about if someone commits suicide, what happens to things one already has experienced and therefore at least on some level "learned", is he or she going to re-live them again in next life?
<Hermes`> they will have to learn the lessons they did not learn in that life. The ones they already learned they would not have to live over. However, in all likelihood, the really important lesson that they needed to learn was the one they committed the suicide over.
<jsn> How about people who die in car accidents? In some level they did create to die anyway?
<jsn> As in that can be thought as suicide as well
<Hermes`> well technically all deaths are suicides
<Hermes`> however in this instance we will define a suicide as when the person knowingly on a conscious level decides to end his or her life because of despair, or fear, or unhappiness.
<Hermes`> and
<Hermes`> takes those steps in a conscious and premeditated way.
<Hermes`> to end that life
<Hermes`> .
<Hermes`> suicide is very unfortunate because it does not solve the problem at all. And often it makes things much worse..
<Hermes`> the trauma of the event and the root cause of the act can often propel the person into very dark dimensions, where it is very difficult to reach them
<Hermes`> they can get locked in there for centuries
<Hermes`> often unaware that they are even dead.
<Attuned3> did anyone here maybe see What dreams may come, a movie?
<Hermes`> ah
<Attuned3> it so nicely describes this
<Hermes`> good movie
<Hermes`> and yea it does describe it nicely
<Attuned3> :) how true do you think that is?
<Hermes`> I have gone in and retrieved many people trapped in places like that
<Hermes`> they all construct their own hell around them
<Hermes`> and they do live in torment in varying degrees
<Attuned3> how do you retrieve them?
<Hermes`> sometimes it can take months and many visits to get them to come out of these places
<Hermes`> well you have to get them to let go of the illusions around them
<Hermes`> reassure them that it will be fine, if they let you help them
<Hermes`> the timing is important in these things
<Hermes`> some people have to live this way for a time, because they will not let you help them
<Hermes`> they are not desperate enough to take a chance
<Hermes`> for those people you have to wait
<Hermes`> in these illusions there is always the chance of getting lost in there yourself
<Hermes`> which is why a physical person with out of body skill that can do these extractions is very much needed
<Hermes`> the body acts like an anchor and can pull you back if you get caught up in the illusion
<Hermes`> on the other hand with a light being with no such anchor..
<Hermes`> if they get caught up in the illusion, then another teacher or several light beings have to go in and get them..
<Hermes`> wake them up from being caught in that illusion
<Attuned3> how do you know they are dead?
Session Close: Tue Dec 04 17:14:07 2001

Session Start: Thu Dec 06 17:05:46 2001
*** Now talking in #energyworks
*** Topic is 'A teacher affects eternity; He can never tell where his influence stops. '
*** Set by Gamble-! on Thu Nov 29 23:35:10
<jsn> but you remember what I asked Tuesday?
<jsn> I had few more questions but IRC was not in condition to ask anything
<Hermes`> yea IRC was bad on Tuesday, continue with the questions
<jsn> well I asked if committing(sp?) suicide will erase your learning's so far and you need to live them again. You said no, unless the reason for the suicide was the lesson, which means more or less failed lesson then. right?
<jsn> and you defined suicide as killing itself with knowledge of doing it.
<Hermes`> yea I remember
<jsn> now, if someone gets raped. She is responsible for it? And if she commits suicide becouse of it after, she will be raped again in next life?
<jsn> because
<Hermes`> ok
<Hermes`> nothing like a simple question to get the mind going
<Hermes`> true if someone is raped she has created that event in some way
<Hermes`> either through karma or because of not applying the reality creating rules properly
<Hermes`> now when she creates suicide she then terminates her lessons for that life
<Hermes`> so in the next life she will have to go back and pick up where she left off in her lesssons
<Hermes`> Now if she is smart in this new life time she will not create the rape again
<jsn> this can happen anytime during life or just few first years after born? Picking up from where left?
<jsn> You know in South-Africa at the moment just born kids are getting raped, in huge amount?
<jsn> They believe having sexual intercourse with virgin will heal the aids.
<Hermes`> of course you can create anything in your life at any time
<Hermes`> and your lessons can be picked up at any point along the way
<jsn> How about the rapist, how they ended up being rapist?
<Hermes`> you know there are good people and bad people
<jsn> what you think we should do about them?
<Hermes`> well do what you can if it is in your power to help prevent these things
<jsn> and do you think people are intentionally bad?
<jsn> no, I mean what society should do, locking up behind bars?
<jsn> you know they end up in next life to be raped as well.. they will get lesson anyway? And therefore we can even think they are giving lessons at the moment to people who have bad karma. I think it is not right.
<Hermes`> people are full of good and bad, it is up to the individual to how they will act or be
<Hermes`> society has its own laws and the universe has its own.
<Hermes`> in the universe's law anything you do to others comes back to you in some way
<jsn> You know pope did forgive to person who tried to kill him, now is this what everyone should do to all bad people?
<jsn> this would prevent it happen in future?
<Hermes`> well, if you are truly sorry for what you have done, than you won't repeat it. As far forgiving others, forgiving others makes it easier for others to forgive you.
<Hermes`> forgiving others will not prevent that person from doing more harm
<Hermes`> it only helps you with your own lessons
<jsn> Now if you're truly sorry what you did, you don't need to experience the bad karma in next life? ie: rapist wont get raped.
<Hermes`> yes, but you will have to pay back that karma in another way, perhaps by doing community service in some way.
<Hermes`> perhaps
<Hermes`> in the next life that rapist per will work in a shelter helping others who have been raped
<Hermes`> or they could do that repay in the current life
<Hermes`> they do not have to wait till the next one
<Hermes`> that is if they were sorry for the action
<Hermes`> if they were not sorry for that action than they probably would create karma where they themselves would be abused in some way
<jsn> I see, thanks for opinion.
<Hermes`> ok
<jsn> One of the things I cant stand is rape. It is lowest of lowest happenings, it is also hard to get that someone who gets raped actually deserves it.
<Hermes`> I never said that
<Hermes`> I said that they created it in some way
<jsn> Yeah, but thru bad karma = deserve
<Hermes`> in some cases they could be getting raped because of karma, but this certainly is not the case all the time
<jsn> What kind of reality creating you think will cause such thing?
<Hermes`> sometimes people will create that sort of thing to inflict what I call secondary pain on another person...
<Hermes`> for example
<Hermes`> her boyfriend breaks up with her and out of anger she creates being hurt herself and then blames that on the break up or that the boyfriend will come back out of sympathy
<Hermes`> in these cases they do not consciously say, "I will get raped"
<Hermes`> they may say or think things like "If something bad happened to me that would surely make him think..."
<Hermes`> or even the person is punishing themselves for some reason
<Hermes`> people do this often.
<Hermes`> You feel guilty over something and then look for ways to punish yourself because of it
<Hermes`> in this case you let your guard down to the protection that keeps these unfortunate things away from you.
<Hermes`> you say "I don't care what happens to me any more..."
<Hermes`> in this case you give up your right to create your world and put yourself at the mercy of everyone else
<jsn> Ok, what you think about death penalty, someone will press the button, how does this effect on karmic reaction?
<Hermes`> well it is a grey area for sure
<Hermes`> it would depend on what kind of karma that person had already. That pushing of the button could be equalizing some wrong doing that happened to that person.
<Hermes`> or it could generate new karma
<Hermes`> or it could do nothing
<Hermes`> most of those people in those chambers that watch the death penalty are often people who have been victims themselves
<Hermes`> they are seeking some karmic equalizing this way,
<Hermes`> I guess that is a wrap for tonight
<Hermes`> bye
<jsn> yea
<jsn> night
*** Disconnected
Session Close: Thu Dec 06 18:14:55 2001

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