October 16, 2001 (workshop log file)

MPE (middle pillar ritual), which version?; ritual; vibrating names of power; aligning your will with the divine; fear-based teachings of the past; karma; overcoming our lower natures and the body; soulmates; the Monad; ascension; existence, consciousness and the mind; nonexistence; changing hate to love; removing anger

October 16, 2001 (workshop log file)

Session Start: Tue Oct 16 16:32:20 2001
*** Now talking in #energyworks
*** Topic is 'http://www.wisdomsdoor.com_'
<Hermes`> ah yes, a full house
<Hermes`> hi Jason
<Hermes`> hi attuned
<Attuned2> hi
<jsn> Hey hermes
<jsn> And attuned2
<jsn> hermes when you're back let me know
<Hermes`> I am back
<Hermes`> been back
<jsn> I saw different version of MPE, I started to wonder if there's many variations of it as well?
<Hermes`> yes, the one I use is an adaptation
<Hermes`> from the traditional version
<jsn> why is that?
<jsn> I mean why u you use adaptation
<jsn> why you use
<Hermes`> well this seemed to be easier to learn and it seemed to work just as good
<Hermes`> also
<Hermes`> in the traditional MPE you circle the energy around you..
<Hermes`> in this adapted version the energy moves more the way it really does in your aura, up the center hara line out the top of your head and back down
<Hermes`> like a fountain
<Hermes`> the main thing of a MPE is the energizing of the chakra down the hara line.
<GargowL> hi
<Hermes`> hi gargowl
<Hermes`> however you are free to use the MPE any way you like best.
<Hermes`> hi severian
<Severian^> hi
<Severian^> how's it going?
<Hermes`> going well
<Severian^> What is today's topic? :-)
<jsn> This version is way different, it tells to move thru 5 spots in body, Kether, Daath, Tiphareth, Yesod, Malkuth and also I write how he explains it: "we now vibrate the godname for Kether, EHEIEH, sounding out each syllable slowly and rhythmically. With practice, the name is vibrated so that it is concentrated directly in the Sephirah itself"
<Hermes`> yea that is the long version
<Hermes`> It works well too, but is a bit winded
<Severian^> I've always had problems vibrating my lower body parts, honum
<jsn> But why not in the first place to make such simple one as you have?
<Hermes`> well, back then things were very ritual, and that means complex to a degree.
<jsn> hi gargowl, severian wb attuned
<Hermes`> I suppose it was a way to weed out the people who did not want to work at it.
<Severian^> Is it true that when you get to the point that you don't feel like doing it, but do it anyway, that you're making progress?
<Severian^> I've having an awfully hard time keeping up these days, interest fades in and out.
<Hermes`> when the anticipation drops you release the energy that prevents you from being successful
<Hermes`> in other words, if you want it too much you tie up the energy needed to make it work
<Hermes`> this is another reason why ritual was used too.
<Severian^> hmm
<Hermes`> it reduced anticipation because you were all caught up with learning these routines
<Severian^> what about vibrating, any hints?
<Severian^> how do you know when you got it right, you just know?
<Hermes`> you are talking about the vibration stage of OBE?
<Severian^> oh sorry, no words
<Hermes`> If you can make the vibrations cover your entire body, and make them so strong that they are uncomfortable, then you are assured a clear go with out of body travel.
<Hermes`> any less and you diminish your chances of getting out of the body.
<Severian^> I was talking about vibrating god names and such, I tried the OBE stuff to no avail :-) feels like a latter stage, if ever
<Hermes`> basically when you vibrate them correctly you feel the energy go up in your body or around you
<Severian^> oh... and you can do that silently?
<Hermes`> sometimes you can even feel the quality of the air around you changing.
<Hermes`> yes, you can do it silently as well. But you may want to try a few out loud to get a feel for how it sounds.
<Severian^> I do them out loud in ritual, but I never 'felt' anything... just practice I guess
<Hermes`> try taking one name and focus on that one
<Severian^> some people change the pitch up/down, is that common?
<Hermes`> try to feel how the energy changes around you when you work that name.
<Hermes`> you can change the pitch, that is personal preference
<Severian^> in my visualizations, I imagine them getting clearer with each repetition of the word
<Severian^> which feels right for me anyway...
<Hermes`> then it must be working for you
<Hermes`> you will find that these things are very adaptable and individual
<Hermes`> what works for you may not work for someone else
<Severian^> I talked to a lady, she had a beautiful description of her rituals
<Severian^> she did them very slowly, like a dance
<Hermes`> nice
<Severian^> once she woke up one morning, and found herself singing the names along with 'angels'. a profound experience :-)
<Hermes`> ritual severs to focus the mind and body and spirit in a common direction. so anyway that helps you to do that will increase its effectiveness
<Hermes`> wow that is a very profound experience
<Hermes`> severs = serves
<Severian^> I wonder, do one empty ones mind while doing them, or focus on intent?
<Severian^> when you can do them without thinking, that is an option
<Hermes`> I try to focus on my intent.
<Severian^> ok :)
<Hermes`> but you are correct in that in the beginning it is hard to do that when you are learning the ritual
<Severian^> another question, hohum
<Hermes`> sure
<Severian^> have you heard about "a course in miracles" ?
<Hermes`> that sounds familiar
<Severian^> it is an old lady that supposedly got some information channeled to her from some entity
<Severian^> mostly about following a good moral code
<Severian^> etc..
<Severian^> (getting to my point) :)
<Hermes`> I do remember seeing the book
<Severian^> it is a 1 year course, you get one message a day
<Severian^> anyway..., I read about how we can create, and how difficult it can be if it goes against the will of the divine
<Severian^> like, going against the natural flow of things, creating stuff that isn't in sync with the universe
<Hermes`> correct
<Severian^> then, aligning your own will as much as possible with the will of the divine would help you become more powerful in creating
<Severian^> but, it would also restrict your free will in creating
<Severian^> aligning your will with 'gods will', or whatever floats ones boat.
<Hermes`> not really. You see, you are limited in what you can create when you create against the flow of the divine. ..
<Hermes`> your reality creation energy is not supported..
<Hermes`> when you create in the flow of the divine, things open up, you can create a great many more things
<Hermes`> there is more than one way to create in harmony with the divine.
<Hermes`> and the more you demonstrate your ability to create in harmony with the divine, the more energy you get to create more things
<Severian^> but would you agree that consciously align your own 'psyche'/'will' with the flow of the divine, restricts ones free will to create, in a way
<Severian^> like how angels aren't capable of good and evil because they are so in touch with the divine
<Severian^> or evil, maybe :-) (I don't know)
<Hermes`> no, because anything that is created against the divine wil is already in decay. it can not exist for long, and it creates karmic waves that come back to you and limit what you can create in the future.
<Hermes`> that is a trick of the dark ones. They want you to think that creating with the divine you give up your will
<Severian^> hm
<Severian^> would you say that our mission is to align ourselves with the flow/will of the divine?
<Severian^> ...and that creating against that will is simply a result of our evolution, or am I only rambling :-)
<Severian^> these things feel important to me
<Hermes`> when we first came to this reality we were one with the divine...
<Hermes`> then the fall happened, we started to create against the will of the divine and our creations become unstable...
<Hermes`> after much time, we lost our natural connection to the divine and then began to be trapped in the reincarnation cycle...
<Hermes`> currently we are in the process of reconnecting ourselves to the divine will because we have learned that the other direction is a dead end.
<Hermes`> it leads to pain, suffering, and loneliness. by our core natures we are meant to feel the energy of connectedness with all that exists..
<Hermes`> we have lost this connectedness and this is why we feel so alone and separate while we are in the flesh.
<Severian^> yes
<Severian^> and when we search for whatever, love, etc.. what we really need is to reunite
<Hermes`> correct, our search for love is really a search to reconnect with the universe and everything that exists.
<Hermes`> love, our relationships can at times give us a glimpse to how it used to feel all the time, when we were connected.
<Severian^> allot of people follow the bible for example, out of fear
<Severian^> why is it that way?
<Hermes`> yes it was common practice in the old days to fear people into following the divine.
<Hermes`> the priests could not get people to follow the divine will, so they figured they would construct a fear based system
<Hermes`> in actuality at that time man was still engaged in the fall from the divine will.
<Hermes`> the priests did what they could to bring order to chaos.
<Hermes`> and I suppose the fear based system worked to some degree
<Hermes`> of course now we do not need such a system any longer
<Severian^> I think it is a bit dangerous to say that things are evil/good, and that evil things will only get you into trouble. Isn't that something that you have to understand when you have come to the realization of total free will, and self responsibility?
<Severian^> or are there shortcuts to a 'good' life?
<Severian^> without fears, that is.
<Hermes`> well the only way you learn about the results of good and evil is to try both sides. This is what the fall from grace was all about.
<Severian^> so coaxing someone into good actions because they will be punished otherwise, seems like it would only delay ones evolution
<Severian^> or should we fear the divine?
<Hermes`> yes you really can not force anyone to do good or bad, the choice has to be theirs. What you can do is show them the consequences of those actions, then let them decide.
<Hermes`> there is not need to fear the divine. My every encounter with divine energy has been loving and compassionate.
<Hermes`> the only time I felt otherwise was when my own bad karma had come back to me in some way.
<Severian^> oh
<Severian^> so there is no good or evil, only the flow of the divine, and resisting that is like resisting a law of nature.
<Hermes`> right
<Severian^> hehe.... wonder what karma I got comin' ;)
<Hermes`> when you create out of harmony with the divine, your pain and suffering that you caused comes back to you.
* Severian^ ducks.
<Hermes`> hehe
<Severian^> on karma
<Severian^> would you say that it comes back to you like a law of nature/energy force, or...
<Severian^> that if I do something bad (create something bad), what I do is 'accept' that it is okay for such things to come into my life as well
<Severian^> that it is individual, rather than something outside oneself
<Hermes`> karma is very individual. it is very mechanical in a way too. The energy you send out comes back to you in some way.
<Hermes`> If I hate a certain person then in some way I will be hated by another person.
<Hermes`> the effect of my projected hatred would be felt back on to myself by someone else hating me.
<Severian^> but being hated by another person, is that something that you 'create', only because you just said it was okay to create hate in the first place
<Hermes`> well hate of course goes against the divine will of love and connectedness. But you are free to experience hate if you wish...
<Hermes`> then the aspects of hate come back into your reality. Mostly you are going to find this unpleasant as hatred just takes you further into loneliness
<Severian^> but it that hatred my own creation, or some energy backlash?
<Hermes`> well, at some point it is your own creation.
<Severian^> if you know what I mean :-)
<Hermes`> You create hate and then it comes back to you.
<Hermes`> if you find people disliking you.
<Hermes`> then in some way you are disliking others
<Severian^> because I unconsciously say to myself: it is okay to hate, in my world hate is okay.. and I create a world with hate
<Hermes`> yes you can do that, then you will experience that dimension of hate
<Severian^> or because of some outside energy force that sends it back?
<Hermes`> you can't label something as okay. Love has a certain quality to it. Hate has another
<Hermes`> if you choose to experience hate that quality will be in your reality
<Hermes`> people will hate you.
<Severian^> For example, I found some time ago that being positive about everything, creates a positive world where only positives exist.
<Hermes`> yes
<Severian^> is it my creation, or is it an outside karmic force that makes it positive? I have a hard time explaining this I guess :)
<Hermes`> you are creating it in your life
<Severian^> I say to myself: My world will be a positive one, I'm going to see everything positive.
<Severian^> so... I stop creating negatives
<Hermes`> you are projecting positive energy outward so you create positive energy around you
<Severian^> but could the positive 'return' be considered a karmic return?
<Severian^> or just that I'm unconsciously creating a positive world, because I've made a conscious choice of everything being positive
<Hermes`> yes karma is both positive and negative
<Hermes`> you can never get rid of karma
<Hermes`> you create positive karma and negative karma
<Severian^> when I hit someone, I tell my unconscious: "It is okay to hit people", and I will start creating events where people hit me
<Hermes`> yes
<Severian^> is karma what I described above, or an "outside" force?
<Hermes`> karma is a natural force that occurs when you exist below the Monadic plane
<Severian^> oh well :-) ok
<Severian^> so it is more than me just telling my creation energies what my world should be like
<Hermes`> it is a means by which you can experience what your creations are like. it is a teaching mechanism
* Severian^ hangs his tongue out and pants.
<Hermes`> when you ascend you are free of the karmic mechanism
<Hermes`> because you are one with the divine will, and it is then impossible for any of your reality creating to be out of sync with the universe
<Severian^> becoming one with the divine will feels a bit like dying to me, I know on an intellectual level that I shouldn't feel that way... but
<GargowL> I was thinking that too
<Hermes`> well if you have never felt what it is like to be reconnected with the divine will, you may think that
<Hermes`> it is out of need and desire that you reconnect with the divine will
<Hermes`> as long as you think of it as something to fear or avoid you will never experience this dimension
<Severian^> I guess our free will here, is just an illusion which aims for primitive means, reproduction and such
<Severian^> unless it is a purely creative act, without hidden agendas
<GargowL> when we reconnect with the divine will, do we still have our consciousness, or is it just like we are just absorbed by another consciousness?
<Hermes`> nature has its own rhythm that it follows. Nature is following its own path in evolution.
<Hermes`> You are more than you were before when you reconnect with the divine will. you are still yourself, but more. you reach from one end of the universe to the other with a thought...
<Hermes`> you can be everything and just yourself
<Severian^> when we think of it, most of peoples conscious choices in life here aim for reproduction, at least mine *whistle*
<GargowL> that's a concept hard to imagine...
<GargowL> lol
<Hermes`> It is hard to overcome the animal natures that are around us. But that too is part of the process of reconnecting to the divine.
<GargowL> I think reproduction is part of the fun part of life :P
<Severian^> I tell ya, I could be a much more happy man if I didn't feel the urge to reproduce
<Hermes`> well reproduction is just the species way of ensuring its continued existence.
<Severian^> no more buying a nicer car, better house, more money.. etc etc etc
<GargowL> well, the urge to do it may not be fun, but to do it sure is...
<Hermes`> that reproductive urge comes mostly from the body consciousness
<Severian^> hehe, right !
<Hermes`> it wants to reproduce
<Hermes`> you have to learn how to control it. But you may never be rid of it.
<GargowL> but it also serves to make us feel that we are leaving something on the worlds (our offspring) and it is a demonstration of love with somebody else (at least it should be)
<Severian^> why do people put each other down? to climb the social ladder and get a better mate
<Severian^> it is a difficult topic
<Hermes`> the mating ritual is very much steeped in instinct. it is competitive. Because you are neither animal nor divine you are caught in the middle
<Hermes`> you have to learn to discard the natural animal instinct and embrace your divine nature
<Hermes`> if you want to get out of the reincarnation cycle
<Severian^> which means to let go of our desire to mate?
<Severian^> ultimately, I feel it does
<Hermes`> to a certain degree. I would say that you need to at least control this element
<Hermes`> it is correct to mate when the time is right of course.
<Hermes`> for procreation mostly
<Severian^> desire makes oneself ambitious, and urges oneself to put others down
<Severian^> that is true for myself anyway
<Severian^> what a deadlock
<Hermes`> that is true mostly
<Severian^> ultimately, we look in the wrong places when we seek love in a mate as the thing that will make us 'whole'
<Hermes`> yes that happens often, and is unfortunate
<Hermes`> you can only be whole by reconnecting yourself with the divine will.
<Hermes`> You can of course engage in personal relationships. You do not have to be a hermit to reconnect with the divine
<Severian^> this is the toughest thing about a spiritual life, imo
<Hermes`> but you do need to learn how to control those lower urges so they do not cause you to create out of harmony with the divine
<Hermes`> the problem with these lower more base instincts is they disconnect you with the divine will, when you let them control you.
<Hermes`> this creates negative karma and all sorts of pain and discomfort in life.
<Severian^> unfortunately, today you need to be ambitious and materialistic, meek doesn't cut it well
<Hermes`> well I suppose it depends on what is important to you.
<Severian^> yeah, I guess
<Severian^> I was referring to reproduction :)
<Hermes`> well you do not have to reproduce to feel whole
<Hermes`> today the continuation of the species is not a problem
<Hermes`> there are plenty of people willing to populate the world
<GargowL> if you find your soulmate you don't need to be strong to reproduce
<Hermes`> if you find your soulmate you can choose to have children or not
<Severian^> I have a girl though, but this must be a huge problem for most people
<Severian^> soulmates exist?
<Hermes`> sure, roughly you have 144 soulmates
<Severian^> laugh
<Severian^> sorry :)
<Severian^> 144!
<Hermes`> yea it is a formula that corresponds to the Monad as it breaks itself up into 144 parts
<Hermes`> any individual that comes from the same Monad is a soulmate
<Severian^> ah
<Hermes`> not all soulmates are incarnated at the same time
<Severian^> and half of them are of the same sex, I guess
<Severian^> presently, I mean
<Hermes`> well it can vary but in a strict sense yes
<Severian^> have you encountered any of your soulmates hermes?
<Hermes`> whether you are male or female has to do with your current incarnation and less to do with the Monad and its parts
<Hermes`> yes I met one in this life time.
<Hermes`> it was a wonderful experience.
* Severian^ was just doing some rough estimations.
<Hermes`> unfortunately, we are not meant to be together in this life, so we went our separate ways.
<Severian^> does the monad as a whole have its own consciousness?
<Hermes`> yes, it has its own sense of self
<Hermes`> and at the same time is aware of all of its 144 smaller selves
<Severian^> will the smaller selves reunite at some point?
<Hermes`> yes but they will still retain their individual natures
<Severian^> when we ascend, we don't do it monad-style, but individually?
<Severian^> =)
<Hermes`> correct
<Severian^> okay
<Severian^> more to think about, thanks...
<Severian^> going to bed, unless someone has something more :)
<Hermes`> glad to be of service
<Severian^> take care
<GargowL> I got a question...
<Hermes`> sure
<GargowL> can somebody at any time cease to exist?
<Hermes`> I have not heard of it to be honest
<Hermes`> once you are created you always are
<GargowL> like if our mind was just inside our brains, and when it stopped working there would be nothing more
<GargowL> thinking of this scares me
<GargowL> I can't imagine what it would be like not to exist
<Hermes`> but you are more, you are consciousness. The mind is just the relay that brings the thoughts of your consciousness into physical reality
<Hermes`> this of course is hard to feel, unless you have been out of your body on the other side of the universe
<Hermes`> before this point you are never really sure what will happen once you die.
<Hermes`> but I can assure you that you will exist after death
<GargowL> it's not like I doubt that, I really believe there is more to a being than the physical body... it's just that thinking of not existing scares me deep inside..
<Hermes`> that fear comes from, I think at least, the feeling of what it is like to be so far away from the divine that you are past being alone.
<Hermes`> you are broken off from all energy of the divine.
<Hermes`> I think that at some point in the fall away from the divine, we did all reach such a point
<Hermes`> and this terrifying feeling was enough to propel us back toward the long haul of reconnection.
<Hermes`> you may feel a piece of this moment when you think of yourself as non-existing
<Hermes`> it is just a guess
<Hermes`> I too used to feel this way
<Hermes`> but now as I reconnect back to the divine will that has gone
<GargowL> another thing...
<Hermes`> sure
<GargowL> when we reconnect with the divine can we separate from it again as part of a monad and be separated again into 144 parts and be a single soul again?
<Hermes`> you will always retain your individuality
<Hermes`> you will be connected yet individual
<Hermes`> as opposed to now where you are an individual with just some small connections
<Hermes`> in this example, you would be able to be yourself one moment...
<Hermes`> then in the next stretch to be the complete monad..
<Hermes`> you could also feel what it is like to be any one of the 144 parts,
<Hermes`> you would have complete freedom of being one with the Monad and being and individual
<Hermes`> and individual = one individual
<Hermes`> it is the best of both worlds, to coin a phrase
<Hermes`> by rejoining with the divine you gain everything and lose nothing
<Hermes`> well perhaps some pain and anguish.
<Hermes`> losing the pain and anguish
<GargowL> hmm another question...
<Hermes`> sure
<GargowL> if a person ascends and his twin flame doesn't
<GargowL> doesn't it make harder to that person's twin flame to ascend?
<GargowL> because that person no longer has his "other half" to help him ascend
<Hermes`> it makes it much easier. Once one twin flame ascends the knowledge of ascension is transferred to a degree to the other
<Hermes`> remember you are connected to your twin flame
<Hermes`> even after you ascend
<GargowL> oh, ok :)
* Attuned2 has a quick question
<Hermes`> sure
<Attuned2> when we repeat something over and over (more precisely that we don't hate but send love to the person that hates us), we that way program ourselves / subconscious mind and then we start acting/thinking in this new way -- is this suppressing?
<Hermes`> no, you are reconditioning your consciousness to a new thought pattern
<Hermes`> when you suppress something you keep that emotion or feeling inside you.
<Hermes`> in this case you are releasing the emotion and replacing it with a more suitable one.
<Attuned2> thanks a lot.
<jsn> When you repeat to forget hate, doesn't it directly mean that you're trying to suppress the feeling, even by trying to replace it with Love which already also should be in you, so isn't there a bit risk that you just put hatred background but not actually lose it
<GargowL> hermes remember you said how to make a card to help to bring love into ones life?
<Hermes`> if you went up to someone and said things of love but felt hate inside, you are suppressing hate and not creating love.
<GargowL> can you please say how to make it again? I lost the txt file with it when I formatted my hard drive
<Hermes`> what you must do to change hate to love is to look at the person you hate and find things in that person you like.
<Hermes`> you have to shift your focus off hate and on to love
<Hermes`> for a time, the other person will still hate you back. but that will change
<jsn> When you shift your focus out of hate, doesn't it mean that you still have hate in you, but you just don't bring it up by trying to search only Lovely things/Positive things? But in deep inside you, you hold the hate. Bit like just waiting it to explode?
<Hermes`> you have to forget what you hate about the person and focus only on what you like
<Hermes`> if you think hate on the inside but talk like on the outside you are surpassing hate
<Attuned2> also remember the person is actually a wonderful being, only a bit less wonderful in this life. that should help
<jsn> It still sounds like tricking the mind think there's no hate in you even in deep in you, you have hate, that you probably don't feel as you have created illusion of non-hate
<jsn> there fore you cant say if you have hate or not, until it explodes out of you
<jsn> this is in personal level, not toward some person. You have hate in you, others just bring it out
<Hermes`> you have to release the hate within you
<Attuned2> it can be transformed?
<Hermes`> yes transform it
<jsn> exactly, and I find repeating it background by somesort of mantra is bit like deceiving yourself
<Hermes`> you have to look at people with love and respect
<Hermes`> you have to let go of judgment of them
<Hermes`> how about this
<Hermes`> when you see something or someone you hate, think about how it feels to be in love.
<Hermes`> this will begin the transformation
<Hermes`> you may have to actually try the exercise
<Hermes`> intellectualizing this process can get you in a big circle
<jsn> How about, if you first understand your hate, be aware of it then you automatically study it and leave it as when you're aware of it and the actions you do because of it, you start to wonder what the heck you're doing, by understanding your own hate is good way to get rid of it?
<Hermes`> well, what you focus on you create
<Hermes`> so the more you focus on hate the more you create it.
<jsn> I think that is more Buddha approach to it
<jsn> it don't mean you need to focus on the hate, it means you are aware of the hate that comes out of you
<Hermes`> there is no need to hate at all
<Hermes`> it is a destructive emotion that hurts everyone
<jsn> true, but people do hate and we're talking about method to get it out of you for real
<Hermes`> you have to let it go
<Hermes`> you have to stop hating
<Hermes`> there is no other way
<jsn> yes, but suppressing hate is dangerous path
<Hermes`> you are not suppressing hate if you just stop hating
<Hermes`> you say " I will love today."
<Hermes`> you say " I will create love in my life
<Hermes`> I will feel love in my life today
<Hermes`> you are making it far more difficult than it really is.
<Hermes`> just stop hating
<jsn> So what happens when something goes wrong? something really pisses you off?
<Hermes`> you can be angry without hate
<jsn> ok I see, I put them in same category :|
<Hermes`> maybe I should define hate a bit
<Hermes`> Hate is the all consuming thought process of sending destructive energy to another person. When you hate you do so every time you think of this person or thing. You do it with viciousness. Hatred slowly consumes you because the more you hate, the more it consumes of your reality creating...
<Hermes`> eventually this energy comes back at you, and you then begin hating yourself...
<Hermes`> the emotion then turns inward and your body begins to break down...
<Hermes`> hate taken to its conclusion ends in your own death, as the body can no longer function because the energy of hate is taking the lifeforce out of it.
<jsn> And anger?
<Hermes`> anger is just a natural reaction when things do not go as planned. Feel anger at yourself because things did not turn out the way you planned. Anger is of course still a destructive emotion but it is not as all consuming as hatred.
<jsn> you can feel angry towards other person such same way as hate, hate is just stronger word for it
<Attuned2> should anger be expressed, or should we calm down instead?
<Hermes`> you should release your anger as well. but first start with your hatred
<Hermes`> when you hate no more, then set your sights on reducing anger in your life
<jsn> so we make them two, makes it more clear. To me they are same
<Hermes`> well if you have never experienced hatred that could be why
<jsn> and why not, its easy to lose them both same time
<Hermes`> and I hope you never do experience hatred
<Attuned2> if someone hits you, that makes you angry. what exactly should you do?
<Hermes`> well if you go by the book you should just take a deep breath and walk away.
<Hermes`> because as you know if you hit back, there will be a war.
<Hermes`> and violence just creates more violence
<Attuned2> that wouldn't be suppressing it?
<Hermes`> I realize that many psychological circles say you have to express your anger and let it out. But really the best thing to do is to not be angry. To learn that if people are angry at you, you do not have to be angry at them.
<Hermes`> when someone is angry, they are not angry at you, they are angry at themselves
<Hermes`> and of course when you are angry at others you are angry at yourself.
<Hermes`> the best thing to do is to find out why you are angry at yourself and then change it
<Hermes`> there are really two ways emotions can rise up within you. From yourself and from others.
<Hermes`> If a person is angry at you, they toss that energy at you, in the hopes that you will get angry too. This then lets them get even more angry and they can then force more energy at you...
<Hermes`> that is if you return that anger...
<Hermes`> but if you do not return the anger, they cannot dump any more angry energy on you. and you have stopped their anger..
<Hermes`> the other way anger gets raised is by your own self, when something in your reality does not go as planned...
<Hermes`> what you need to do here, is to examine why your creation was not in harmony with the divine will and then adjust it.
<Hermes`> as your reality comes more in line with the divine will your anger will diminish
<Hermes`> as you come to love yourself more, your anger will diminish
<Hermes`> well I guess that is enough for now
<Hermes`> catch everyone later
*** Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Oct 16 19:34:15 2001