September 12, 2001 (workshop log file)

>mass reality creating, Nostradamas, the world mind; the self fulfilling tendency of prophecy; karma; life & death; the nonmanifest areas of the universe; patience and its importance

September 12, 2001 (workshop log file)

Session Start: Wed Sep 12 17:02:29 2001
*** Now talking in #energyworks
*** Topic is 'You Create Your Reality!'
<fooki> hi =)
<Hermes`> hi fook
<fooki> what do you think about the Nostradamas' predictions / the World Trade Center events?
<Hermes`> I don't know much about them
<fooki> ah
<Hermes`> what do they say?
<fooki> hmm something like "the 3rd big war will start when the big city is in flames" but like in every big world war many big cities have been in flames etc..
<fooki> and like "the two big brothers are torn apart" or something like that
<fooki> I suppose you really can't say much according to those
<Hermes`> yea, the problem with Nostradamas' predictions is they can be applied to many things
<Hermes`> the few encounters I have had reading his predictions, I found them very confusing
<fooki> okay
<fooki> of course people have debated a lot about Nostradamas in these last two days
<Hermes`> yea I guess they have
<fooki> but like let's be real. It's almost impossible to stop attacks like that by logic and intelligence. Security measures are like a fishnet and terrorist is a mosquito flying through it.
<fooki> you can compare the terrorist / Security situation to virus writers / computer Security firms etc. It's a cat and mouse thing really
<fooki> like somehow people's moral should be corrected. Then it would be safe with minimal Security measures
<Hermes`> I don't know to be honest. I try not to speculate on what may or may not happen in the future
<Hermes`> of course when man learns to get along with man, Then all such things will vanish.
<fooki> I found many claims on ever advancing technology etc. like there are guns made completely of plastic etc. that metal detectors will not detect at all
<Hermes`> could be, technology can create many things these days
<fooki> things like biological / chemical warfare that are very easy and cheap to produce and use
<fooki> but now people are like wanting revenge and stuff. They are not willing to find out the reasons why those people did what they did and then try to work out solutions that would balance the situation
<Hermes`> well right now everything is talk
<fooki> luckily so
<fooki> btw. Have you read "A book of angels" by Sophy Burnham (1990) ? a friend of mine recommended it to me
<Hermes`> no I haven't what is it about?
<fooki> some woman who meditates and astral projects and gets enlightened I suppose.. She feels like She understood everything
<fooki> <Hermes`> I don't know to be honest. I try not to speculate on what may or may not happen in the future <-- btw. Opinion of a reality creator, isn't it? =)
<fooki> people like bush have quite a responsibility because of what they talk about in their speeches. (That influences millions of people's opinions)
<fooki> and therefore creating great amounts of thoughts to a certain direction
<Hermes`> yes the mass reality of all thoughts can get a bit complex
<Hermes`> every thought adds to the mass reality
<Hermes`> and of course a world leader's thoughts can influence a great many other people's thoughts.
<fooki> yep
<Hermes`> when reality creating gets into the mass reality creating size, things can get fuzzy
<Hermes`> however the individual reality can remain in tact
<Hermes`> even in the face of a opposing mass reality
<Hermes`> for example
<Hermes`> in your reality there is peace and comfort at this moment
<Hermes`> yet in part of the mass reality there is discomfort, and even terror going on.
<fooki> okay
<Hermes`> we create our world on an inner to outer level. As your reality center moves further from you, the more other people's thoughts start to effect the reality you perceive.
<Hermes`> so when you see world events...
<Hermes`> you are viewing the commutative mass reality of the world. You are peeking into the combined mind of everyone on the planet.
<fooki> heh =) after inventing television, the mass reality of this planet must have started to jump up and down like stocks =D
<Hermes`> heheh
<Hermes`> yea
<fooki> like sports events or things like on NYC
<Hermes`> hopefully things like television will help to educate everyone on what is good and not so good to create.
<fooki> there is a tabloid magazine in Finland that has a small space for "happy news" every day =) people can send messages or e-mail to the editors etc.. They usually tell how they love their partners / children etc. or that it's a beautiful day or something like that =)
<Hermes`> wow that is nice
<Hermes`> too bad that section is not larger
<Hermes`> but it is a start
<fooki> yep
<fooki> but still it's rather boring.. About the same stuff there every day.. Although I do read it through if I happen to read that magazine
<fooki> maybe it would be more interesting if people would be more specific.. The messages there are really short and inaccurate
<Hermes`> and now we come to the reason that a negative reality is hard to get rid of.
<Hermes`> over time we have been trained to think that these positive things are boring
<Hermes`> but I think this is just a learned condition
<Hermes`> and that in time these very positive things can be just as exciting as the negative ones are now.
<fooki> I disagree partly. I see people are unable to maintain balance and be in state of happiness for longer periods of time. Like there are many fears and things we would like to say aloud but we haven't yet etc. that are preventing us to be happy. Like if you really are honest and try you're best and don't push yourself too hard. Enjoy what you have and be satisfied with it. That's happiness. And Like I still do think that the"happy news" are so is
<fooki> but like you DO have a point there still.
<fooki> And other important thing that keeps us from being happy is this "you must be as efficient and productive as possible" attitude that is present in schools and at work. Like people don't have time to really think about things.. They are just stressed and all tired.
<fooki> Like happiness itself seldom is efficient and productive from capitalist point of view
<fooki> It's something like sort of a minor thing in life
<fooki> AFTER efficiency and career
<fooki> Like my point is if you have trouble in lovelife etc. you still need to study or work as hard as usual
<fooki> The worklife usually comes first
<fooki> no matter how hard it hurt
<fooki> hmm.. I notice I am not making complete sense here =)
<fooki> but something like that
<Hermes`> I know what you are saying
<Hermes`> ultimately what you put as being important in your life is up to you.
<Hermes`> it is an individual choice
<Hermes`> And you can be either happy or sad in that choice.
<fooki> well yes. True. But I was talking about "good citizen's" point of view.. And like to live a different life (from that) you get easily disrespected.
<Hermes`> The need to be productive comes from very basic instincts.
<Hermes`> In man's genetic memory is the need to survive.
<Hermes`> at one time if he did not hunt, he would not live.
<Hermes`> of course,
<Hermes`> we do not live in that kind of world as much anymore...
<Hermes`> But the genetic memory has not caught up with our new way of living...
<Hermes`> so quite often people will put their career ahead of what is important to them.
<Hermes`> in many respects they are being driven by instinct.
<Hermes`> this instinct however can be conquered
<Hermes`> And it will be in time
<fooki> True. It's still kind of hard to know what YOU really want And what's you're instincts saying that's what you want
<fooki> so.. Meantime you are figuring that out you are getting an education etc. And following that instinct
<Hermes`> yes quite right
<Hermes`> And if you are lucky you can figure out what is important to you before you get too old to actually follow it
<fooki> well like true. My folks wanted me to attend to piano classes or something And I felt I was being forced into it. So I decided to use my free will to not want to go there. Just to resist that authority. I'm reality I never asked myself if I'd want to learn to play piano. And now I regret it. It would have been a great advantage for me today..
<Hermes`> parents often try to help you to figure out what you may need as you grow up
<jsn> hi hermes
<Hermes`> But of course you have to be open to this thing too
<Hermes`> hi jason
<Hermes`> however, following your own will at that time is still a good thing
<Hermes`> It shows the ability to be your own person to make your own choices
<Hermes`> not all our choices will be good ones
<Hermes`> But that is how we learn as well
<fooki> I guess so
<fooki> hehe if you make only good choices - you learn nothing? =D
<Hermes`> hehe well not exactly
<Hermes`> But I suppose there is much truth there
<jsn> Just small note to Nostradamas, we spoke about it when the elections were in USA (we spoke at #energyworks) And if the Bush wins, the Nostradamas is being told to write that wwIII takes place. So in that light at least someone had pretty good idea of the writings, but then again, those texts are referred to so many things that might happen when this and that takes place...
<Hermes`> prophecy is a hind sight kind of thing; It can be explained fully only after it has happened
<jsn> So we speculated about it here some months back. It seems something like that has happened.
<Hermes`> well we never talked about buildings coming down
<jsn> well it was 'act of war'
<jsn> I doubt anyone can be that exact?
<jsn> especially when the writings are writing so many years back
<fooki> when estonia sank, people had dreams about it the night before or something
<fooki> or on that night
<fooki> But I guess people often dream About sinking ships
<jsn> also, what comes to karma in this situation can't we think they deserved it?
<jsn> They = all The innocent people who died.
<Hermes`> there are always ripples of events through time...
<Hermes`> And some people are able to tune into these ripples and document them...
<Hermes`> this however does not guarantee that these things will come to pass, as there are many probabilities of events
<Hermes`> when you take a prediction of the future and give it credit you start to make that creation part of your reality
<Hermes`> and then you pull that reality toward you in some way
<Hermes`> because so many people of the world focus on these horrible things happening, they are created.
<Hermes`> because people like Nostradamas wrote mainly negative probable events of the future, and subsequently people focused on these events, that energy was added to the mass reality. And these kinds of things are being pulled toward the mass reality.
<fooki> okay. So he is responsible for all of this happening (including both world wars etc.) =D
<fooki> not
<Hermes`> no each and ever person on the planet is responsible. Writings like Nostradamas only serve to pull public opinion in a certain direction. Then the thought waves of all those people do the rest.
<Hermes`> writings like Nostradamas are no different than propaganda
<Hermes`> They are a way to take the power of reality creating out of your hands, to make you think that only one course of action is possible.
<jsn> Hermes, do you agree: people who died had bad karma?
<fooki> what is The rough ratio of responsibility between those who did the actions And those who just thought it would be possible?
<Hermes`> nobody dies that is not ready to die, if only on an inner level.
<Hermes`> karma is something that operates through life
<Hermes`> It is not an instrument to bring about death as, once you die, your learning on this planet stops...
<Hermes`> karma is an device to help you learn how to live in harmony
<Hermes`> every person that died in that blast made the choice to exit this reality, as horrible as that statement may sound
<Hermes`> if you cling to the belief that you create your own reality, then you have to come to the realization that you create your own death as well
<Hermes`> I do not wish to sound unsympathetic to what happened and to the loss of life. It is a great tragady on many levels.
<fooki> It's just natural after all
<fooki> our culture sees it like otherwise
<fooki> That death thing, not terrorism
<Hermes`> yes, death is a part of life, at some point everyone must go.
<Hermes`> these are not easy things to understand that we are talking about
<Hermes`> So if you do not agree or are confused, it is okay
<Hermes`> It has taken me over 20 years to understand some of these life and death questions
<fooki> I have never had any problems understanding death / karma
<Hermes`> ah good
<fooki> It just makes sense to me somehow
<fooki> when I didn't know about karma, I knew world must be fair in one way or other. There is no way that it would make sense. It just has to be fair in the end. There would be no point in life otherwise.
<fooki> It would be unfair
<Hermes`> yes karma is the thing that evens everything out
<fooki> hehe I reckon I had an extremely empty feeling when I was a little child And I happened to think that what if the whole world wouldn't exist. I felt like nothing existed for a short moment. It was really weird.. And like I have many times tried to get that feeling again But I have never succeeded in getting it again.
<fooki> I got sort of struck by that idea. I got scared. Almost jumped into air.
<fooki> And like I don't like to think "too deep" or I will feel insecure..
<Hermes`> well you were right for the most part. Your reality is a great illusion
<Hermes`> It is constructed the moment you enter into this reality
<Hermes`> And It ceases to exist when you leave
<Hermes`> So for those brief moments of nonreality, your reality was being constructed
<fooki> I remember a thought chain: There would be nothing, what would there be? -> black emptiness -> what if there wouldn't be neither black nor emptiness -> argh =/
<fooki> logical mind was unable to think that thought =)
<fooki> It was really confusing at that time
<Hermes`> non creation
<Hermes`> There are parts of the universe that are unmanifest
<Hermes`> In an OBE or specialized states of awareness, you can go to these regions
<Hermes`> It is quite an empty experience of sorts, a non experience
<fooki> are you saying there are parts that don't exist? =DD
<Hermes`> yea between one reality and another there are regions of nonexistence...
<Hermes`> nothing exists here, as nothing has been created there
<fooki> now that's so weird
<Hermes`> In these regions you actually do not exist
<fooki> But does it exist if nothing exists there?
<fooki> That feels just so insane if you think about it =)
<Hermes`> It is
<Hermes`> how can a sane mind grasp the meaning of non existing
<Hermes`> It is counter everything you know
<Hermes`> But when you pass through these regions you do not exist
<fooki> can you spend long times there? =)
<Hermes`> as there is nothing that is manifested there to reflect back your existence
<Hermes`> I have only been able to spend several seconds there
<fooki> what draws you away from there?
<Hermes`> your natural momentum of moving from one reality to another
<Hermes`> And the next reality also pulls you toward it
<fooki> can that be slowed down or stopped?
<Hermes`> you can fight it, But as I said there is a natural pull to go toward the manifested reality
<fooki> is It Like balancing on a rope?
<Hermes`> I suppose, if you could find that perfect spot where your momentum stops, and neither reality can pull on you, you could stay in this region
<fooki> how can you fight it if you don't exist? =D (sorry, But I find this extremely amusing =) )
<fooki> well in that case would you stop existing for good?
<Hermes`> okay when you are in this nonmanifest region, there is no you, no thoughts, no knowledge of self,
<jsn> is this the abyss?
<jsn> its said no-one will be same after visiting abyss
<Hermes`> no it is not the abyss, the abyss is another reality plane of sorts
<Hermes`> in the abyss your worst nightmares are brought to manifestation
<Hermes`> The abyss is full of manifestation
<Hermes`> mostly your own negative And fear based energy that you possess.
<Hermes`> in these nonexisting regions you can not think of anything because nothing can manifest
<Hermes`> you can not fear anything as that would be a manifestation
<fooki> I am on nonexisting regions on all my math exams =D
<Hermes`> hehe
<jsn> =)
<naf-away> oh, there's some action here. :)
<naf-away> I just woke up
<jsn> hey naf good morning
<naf-away> And I think I'll go back to sleep. :)
<fooki> nafdaf
<naf-away> But see you later anyway
<Hermes`> hello naf
<fooki> okay bye =)
<jsn> good night Then too =)
<fooki> beautiful dreams =)
<naf-away> Hermes`, hi, I have to talk to you later about things. :)
<Hermes`> okay catch you later
<fooki> I So envy naf because he is able to make logical decisions like go to bed early and stuff =)
<naf-away> ;)
<naf-away> bye
<Hermes`> And yea Jason, you are never the same after visiting the abyss
<fooki> why did somebody design spiritual development to be so slow?
<fooki> he was a nasty guy =)
<Hermes`> yea, it should be much faster :)
<Hermes`> however when you get to where you are now, you are on the fast track
<fooki> well actually of course he had a point for deciding so =)
<jsn> I think its not someone who designed it, but more like the people slow in learning?
<fooki> But like is there something that supports patience being required as you develop spiritually?
<Hermes`> patience is very important
<fooki> jsn that sort of makes sense too
<Hermes`> when you do not take the time to anchor yourself in the moment, you lose much reality creating power
<Hermes`> So the lesson with patience is to be secure in where you are,
<Hermes`> take the time to explore the moment you are in
<Hermes`> in abtime and space medium patience becomes the time it takes to manifest something new
<Hermes`> new reality creatings in time and space take time to build the energy
<Hermes`> So that they can break into physical form.
<Hermes`> So you have to delicately nurture your new reality creatings over time
<Hermes`> add some energy here and there and wait
<Hermes`> reality creating in physical reality is like banging a nail into a piece of wood...
<Hermes`> The time between the smacks of the hammer is the time you need to gather the energy to drive the nail in a bit more.
<jsn> what is opposite to patience?
<Hermes`> weakness
<Hermes`> through patience you get strength
<Hermes`> without patience you get weak
<fooki> hmm.. I wonder how come I link The idea of patience to stillness..
<fooki> Like just for waiting something to happen
<fooki> is that patience?
<jsn> hermes, what do you think is opposite to mind?
<Hermes`> well that one is tough
<Hermes`> what do you think is the opposite of mind?
<jsn> I must at the moment agree with claim that it would be body
<Hermes`> I suppose it is kind of like asking what is the opposite of the color red,
<Hermes`> well time to go
<Hermes`> I'll see everyone tomorrow
<fooki> bye
<Hermes`> bye
<jsn> Well laters
*** Disconnected
Session Close: Wed Sep 12 19:04:56 2001