September 4, 2001 (workshop log file)

transcendental meditation; benefits of meditation; ego & consciousness; out of body safety; what to use out of body for; brow chakra; losing the ego during an OBE; the strange nonphysical plane

September 4, 2001 (workshop log file)

Session Start: Tue Sep 04 16:24:08 2001
*** Now talking in #energyworks
*** Topic is 'You Create Your Reality!'
*** Set by jsn!~jsn@k18.suvela.hoasnet.fi on Mon Aug 27 13:56:37
<Hermes`> howdy men
<fooki> hermes =)
<fooki> long time no c
<fooki> what have you been up to?
<Hermes`> yea it has been awhile
<Hermes`> enjoying the summer
<fooki> I looked at the www.tm.org and after that read some criticism on it
<Hermes`> what site ist hat
<fooki> those guys really know how to market =)
<fooki> transcendental meditation or something
<Hermes`> ah, nice easy name
<fooki> it's very basic meditation nothing extraordinary
<fooki> but they have a worldwide organization to promote it
<jsn> hey hermes
<fooki> the courses are like $100 or so
<Hermes`> I think I saw this site
<fooki> like hmm I'll try to find the criticism site =) it was very interesting =)
<Hermes`> do you know anyone that has taken the course
<fooki> http://minet.org/research.html
<fooki> hermes nope
<fooki> but like maybe if there really are four million graduates =)
* jsn brb
<Hermes`> 4 million wow
<Hermes`> impressive if true
<fooki> indeed
<Hermes`> I think meditation and transcendental med are not effective when you don't really keep it up. People try it once then stop and don't stick with it.
<Hermes`> I found it takes time to see the results from it.
<fooki> http://www.suggestibility.org/ <-- that site claims transcendental meditation is mixture of suggestions and trance induction
<fooki> yep figures
<fooki> but like there are those studies on minet.org that claim that tm didn't lower blood pressure over six months of time on 20 persons
<Hermes`> wow, that is strange
<Hermes`> just relaxing lowers blood pressure, forget meditation
<fooki> hmm yes
<fooki> maybe they all cheated the researcher =D
<Hermes`> hehe
<Hermes`> yea
<fooki> got lazy and then pissed off by the whole idea
<fooki> 20 peoples is a little group for a scientific study
<fooki> there is another one that involves more people and I think it's interesting
<fooki> I'll find the excerpt
<fooki> this: http://minet.org/Documents/research.1993.persinger epileptic like attacks.. like hmm those vibrations and hypnogogic imagery and stuff.. maybe some of these people really were starting good
<Hermes`> yea it sounds like it
<Hermes`> I find meditation is a doorway to your soul, to your inner being.
<fooki> funny how they made so wrong conclusions =)
<Hermes`> yea they did not understand what was happening there
<fooki> but from scientific point of view their conclusions are quite obvious and clear
<Hermes`> that they were going into a trance and starting to out of body travel
<fooki> sad and amusing at the same time
<fooki> hehehe =D
<Hermes`> :)
<fooki> they should have kept the research going on for a little bit more =D it would have been interesting to read the report that people had began to see themselves outside their bodies =D
<Hermes`> yea then they really would of had a study on their hands
<fooki> yep. but a hard to believe one
<fooki> like their colleagues would find ways to criticize it somehow
<Hermes`> yes it would be too far fetched for the scientific community
<fooki> true, true
<fooki> but still =) if they had repeated it again and gotten the same results over again =D
<fooki> but like the TM guys have quite wild claims on their webpages.. Like they sort of teach levitation or something. and they claim meditation reduces crime in cities etc. like those are impossible to prove in traditional scientific methods
<fooki> so they just end up being laughed at
<Hermes`> yea they tend to over sell the thing
<fooki> exactly
<fooki> and it's nothing special.. just some specific mantras.. Nothing more
<fooki> http://minet.org/mantras.html <- those mantras to be exact
<fooki> and like that information should sort of be secret or something
<Hermes`> well if they keep in secret then people have to go to them to learn it.
<fooki> yep
<fooki> but like it's kind of unfair to ask money for such a thing
<Hermes`> I see they have a whole schedule on what mantra is right for what person
<fooki> how did they come up with that kind of chart?
<Hermes`> that is a good question
<Hermes`> that I have no answer for
<Hermes`> it is most likely based on what chakra you need to energize. And at certain ages certain chakra are better.
<fooki> why is that?
<Hermes`> as you get older the lower chakra become less important, they deal more with the physical side of life
<Hermes`> in theory as your physical life gets set...
<Hermes`> you can devote some your energy to perfecting your higher aspects of your self
<fooki> does that mean that it will get easier to meditate etc. as you get older?
<Hermes`> it should I suppose
<Hermes`> naturally from the ages of 20 to 40 you are most engaged in creating a physical life. So most people don't think to focus their energy upward...
<Hermes`> as they feel their life is set, they then look for other places to send this energy
<Hermes`> however meditation can be easily done at any age
<fooki> thought so =)
<Hermes`> it is just that between those ages I find most people will say they don't have the time for it.
<fooki> which of course is nonsense =)
<fooki> they'd be more productive and gain at least the time they spend
<Hermes`> yes absolutely
<Hermes`> I find physical time and space open up for the daily meditator
<Hermes`> so you actually get more time during the day
<Hermes`> when you meditate, then if you do not
<Hermes`> and what you do create during the day creates much more quickly and easily, so you don't have to work as hard.
<fooki> oka
<fooki> +y
<jsn> hey
<Hermes`> hi jason
<jsn> What is your viewpoint about dropping the ego and feeling of 'i' in an out of body experience?
<Hermes`> well that happens
<Hermes`> you feel a shifting of gears, and dropping down feeling
<Hermes`> your ego takes a back seat to your consciousness
<Hermes`> and you feel different, as consciousness is different than the physical ego
<Hermes`> this feeling is quite nice once you get used to it
<jsn> But that is, what you prefer as good goal?
<Hermes`> well you need your ego to live on the physical plane
<Hermes`> otherwise you go the way of the horse and carriage real fast
<Hermes`> what you do need to do is try to enlighten your physical ego, so that it can be more
<Hermes`> it can tap into your greater consciousness and use the information there.
<Hermes`> consciousness likes to experience things
<Hermes`> it is not so specific on how it experiences stuff.
<Hermes`> your ego makes sure you don't experience something that can get you killed.
<Hermes`> consciousness would not mind driving down the road one moment and the next being off going to Jupiter.
<jsn> When you drop the ego and don't feel "i" anymore, does it really matter what happens to body, especially when one is one with the universe, everywhere and nowhere sametime?
<Hermes`> as far as you are concerned you don't care about the body anymore
<Hermes`> but luckily there are in built mechanisms that keep the body safe
<Hermes`> like a cord that goes from the body to you
<Hermes`> it can pull you back in a second
<Hermes`> and if you have been trying to do OBE on a regular basis, you will have an out of body spirit guide that will watch over your body.
<jsn> but the OBE cannot be the ultimate? You just enter back to your body and live happily ever after? that's it?
<Hermes`> after one OBE?
<jsn> and pump the ego fast as u can?
<jsn> yes, I mean what is the reason for the OBE, just have fun and think: "yes I've done I'm the greatest"?
<Hermes`> well I teach to use OBE to help evolve yourself
<Hermes`> any other purpose is not going to have much benefit.
<Hermes`> you use it to connect with masters and teachers that can help you...
<Hermes`> travel to the Tree of Life, or to any of the planes in the Aethyrs
<jsn> I have book about tree of life just waiting that I finish the other book so we'll be back then =)
<Hermes`> good
<jsn> its more pleasant to read those things from paper than from monitor.
<Hermes`> yea
<jsn> I have no more questions.
<fooki> there is this guy who gets very radical results just by closing his eyes and concentrating on his brow chakra etc.. he's afraid to try anything more at the moment.. Like"god knows what will happen"
<fooki> he has had all kinds of things in childhood too
<fooki> his father had had those too and his father told him it's normal and nothing to worry about
<Hermes`> well
<Hermes`> some people are most sensitive to this stuff than other people...
<Hermes`> usually if they are of this nature, it means they had developed this skill in a previous life
<Hermes`> so it comes real easy in this one..
<Hermes`> most likely this person can easily leave his body from the brow chakra
<Hermes`> because of a past life
<fooki> yes he has had sort of oobes but the scales of things, geometry, colors and shapes were twisted
<Hermes`> that is normal
<Hermes`> things are very different in the nonphysical plane
<Hermes`> time and space are fluent
<Hermes`> they shift and change like the water does
<fooki> ah okay
<fooki> I'll tell him
<Hermes`> it does take some getting use to the nonphysical...
<Hermes`> at first you think it is going to be just like the physical plane...
<Hermes`> then the strangeness sets in.
<Hermes`> rooms being reversed...
<Hermes`> colors changing or not right....
<Hermes`> walking from one room to another and being in a completely different place.
<fooki> okay
<Hermes`> oh well time to go
<Hermes`> catch you later
*** Disconnected
Session Close: Tue Sep 04 18:34:26 2001