June 14, 2001 (workshop log file)

The universe blinking on and off; rituals; automatic writing; Ouija Boards; relationships and how they help you to evolve; depression

June 14, 2001 (workshop log file)

Session Start: Thu Jun 14 16:29:54 2001
*** Now talking in #energyworks
*** Topic is 'A teacher affects eternity; He can never tell where his influence stops.'
<Hermes`> howdy
<gnosis> hi
<fooki> hi!'
<fooki> is it a workshop today?
<Hermes`> sure
<Hermes`> I'm here
<fooki> great =)
<Hermes`> how are you fook?
<fooki> do you guys like have a workshop mailing list or sth? where did you agree to put up a workshop today?
<Hermes`> Tuesday and Thursday a this time is the workshop
<fooki> Hermes` well.. tired =) 1,5 hours of sleep last night.. I have a performance at a raveparty tomorrow.. working on that now
<Hermes`> the time is posted on the workshops page
<Hermes`> great fook, good luck with it
<fooki> well it hasn't been for over a week
<Hermes`> yea, I have been unable to attend the last few times
<fooki> well it's quite finished now.. so it's up to crowd's reaction now really
<Hermes`> well you will have to drop me a note how it goes
<fooki> consider it done
<Hermes`> so gnosis what you been up to?
<gnosis> nothing really
<gnosis> actually
<gnosis> you know how sometimes when you are meditating or in a dreamlike focus, how there are pauses or everything goes blank for an instant?
<Hermes`> yea, it is like someone turned off reality for a moment
<gnosis> Like when a record or CD skips, there is this blankness
<gnosis> yeah
<gnosis> what is that
<Hermes`> for a moment you are not focused in any reality
<Hermes`> you could say you blink out of existence for a moment
<fooki> what does the consciousness perceive then?
<gnosis> blankness!
<Hermes`> nothing
<fooki> do you mean that at that moment one doesn't exist? =)
<gnosis> haha
<gnosis> :)
<gnosis> no
<gnosis> you exist
<Hermes`> in a sense you do not exist for that moment
<Hermes`> you only exist when you focus on a reality
<Hermes`> so for that brief moment you are no place, and not really existing
<fooki> how long is it possible to not be focused on any reality? =) hours? =D
<Hermes`> you still are in those moments
<Hermes`> consciousness can never be destroyed
<Hermes`> you just are no place
<Hermes`> not focused in a reality.
<fooki> is it possible to be at that state and still be conscious of oneself?
<Hermes`> I think you can, with practice, however I have only been able to stay in that space for a few seconds
<Hermes`> once I realize I am in that space of nothing, I am jolted out of it
<fooki> does that mean that at that moment you create something to that reality and it is no more empty?
<Hermes`> yea
<fooki> hmm.. paradox there?
<Hermes`> there is a theory about these black moments
<Hermes`> it is said that the universe breaths.
<Hermes`> it blinks on and off
<Hermes`> and in those black moments you are actually perceiving the universe when it is off
<Hermes`> there is a rate that it does this, but I don't know it off hand
<Hermes`> we usually do not perceive these blank moments because our consciousness just jumps over them
<fooki> maybe the universe is in suspend mode =D
<Hermes`> in some instances when falling off to sleep or in a trance you can catch these blank moments when the universe is off
<Hermes`> either way, it is a moment of non existence. It is also is the moment just before everything is possible
<gnosis> In my experience, there is this blank state, and then there is another initial state of subtle perception or consciousness closely relate to this..enlightenment.
<Hermes`> it is moments where everything is so silent that you can connect to God.
<Hermes`> so yea, a deep state of enlightenment
<fooki> that brings to my mind a psychedelic trance tune "the divine moments of truth"
<gnosis> A while back, while meditating I noticed that first I would go blank, and then immediately after recognizing that it happened, the most subtle effort to perceive is made, and at this point, there is illumination (literally), a flashing or pulsating goldish white light, and without being able to sustain, I would return to normal consciousness.
<gnosis> These states are not linear, they just appear to be because of the sequence of our actions.
<Gnosis> there can be blankness without illumination...and illumination without blankness.
<Hermes`> sure, I suppose so
<fooki> hey hermes, got any idea of what happens when shamans etc. people dance for hours to try to reach trance state or sth?
<Hermes`> ritual can be a powerful reality creating tool...
<Hermes`> and often shamans would construct rituals to help attone and prepare the body mind and spirit for spiritual states
<Hermes`> attone = attune
<Hermes`> the dancing was just part of these rituals
<fooki> well.. people like to compare this new rave culture to those ancient dancing cultures.. in raves.. well there are no "rituals".. although people do act similarly (usually most people look at the DJ when dancing..) and well.. maybe it's just the sports but it does give you an unusual feeling..
<Hermes`> well in a sense it is a ritual. As a ritual is anything you do repeatedly to achieve some purpose.
<fooki> hehe =) well then it is =9
<Hermes`> :)
<Hermes`> and you being the DJ would be the ritual medicine man I suppose
<fooki> yea that's the way
<fooki> DJ reads crowd to see what they like and try to respond to that the best way he can
<Hermes`> yep, and then you help them to achieve their ritual goal. (have fun, celebrate)
<fooki> yea.. so there is no spiritual side of things then, is there?
<Hermes`> spirit is everywhere
<fooki> but hmm.. it's almost like a religious experience at times in the raves.. I mean the experience is strong..
<fooki> you certainly feel something..
<Hermes`> exactly
<Hermes`> that is why spirit is everywhere
<Hermes`> in your raves you pull the energy out
<Hermes`> and you can feel it
<Hermes`> the ritual of playing music and dancing, access the spiritual energy of the moment
<Hermes`> you may not think of it as spiritual because is a dance club, but it is no less a valid spiritual exercise than the shamans dancing around the fire.
<fooki> well.. The spiritual side of things work better in a raveparty, not in a club.. People tend to be more on alcohol in clubs..
<Hermes`> yea the alcohol tends to change the mix a bit
<fooki> a friend of mine does this automatic writing thing..
<fooki> or he used to.. He doesn't do that so actively anymore
<fooki> he claimed that everyone can learn it and that it should be one of the easiest "spiritual" things to learn..
<Hermes`> yea
<Hermes`> automatic writing is a good way to tap your inner self
<Hermes`> it is a good way to learn
<Hermes`> I would encourage you to try it
<Hermes`> in time the information you can get from it can be very accurate and helpful
*** Gamble` sets mode: +o jsn
<fooki> my friend used the expression "guardian angel" to be the one who is writing through you
<jsn> hi all
<fooki> hi jsn
<Hermes`> yea it can be your GA channeling through you.
<fooki> in my friend's method he first asked his guardian angel to touch him somewhere in his body to be sure to know that the angel is there beside him.. Then he asked a question from his angel in his mind or wrote that down to the paper.
<fooki> but he consciously was trying to communicate with his angel
<Hermes`> hi jason
<Hermes`> sounds like he did it
<Hermes`> I should make an assignment that everyone here go and do some automatic writing and bring back a sample of it next week.
<Hermes`> one or two paragraphs of the best part
<Hermes`> but that would be a good procedure to follow, make sure you GA is near, ask for his/her assistance, and then go write
<fooki> figures
<fooki> there are these spooky stories about Ouija boards etc..
<Hermes`> yea that can be a not so friendly too
<Hermes`> too=tool
<fooki> why is that?
<Hermes`> the problem with the Ouija board is you have no way of knowing what kind of being you are talking to on the other end...
<fooki> why tool X is more hostile than tool Y
<Hermes`> the Ouija board acts like a magnet pulling entities to it
<Hermes`> and usually it is who gets there first that wins
<Hermes`> and often
<Hermes`> the kinds of entities it pulls in are mischievous
<fooki> why does Ouija board act like a magnet? what causes that?
*** Gamble` sets mode: +o jsn
<Hermes`> it is a very old occult tool that has energy keys attached to it
<Hermes`> it is like a radio transmitter
<Hermes`> but on a psychic wave length
<fooki> does that apply to self made spiritism boards too?
<Hermes`> not so much
<Hermes`> the Ouija is almost always produced identical to the original
<Hermes`> and this helps to activate those keys
<fooki> aha. I see
<Hermes`> of course your self made board may not be as effective as the Ouija board
<fooki> what especially in that classic Ouija board design enables the energy keys to work?
<Hermes`> but that is because you are not activating those keys
<Hermes`> it is the whole look. You see...
<Hermes`> it was used for centuries as this kind of tool
<Hermes`> reproduced the same over the years...
<Hermes`> everyone that used it, added to the energy of the tool...
<Hermes`> so over the years it has gathered a great deal of energy
<Hermes`> it is like any letter of the alphabet
<fooki> so the energy has simply been added to that design of the board? the idea of how the board should look like etc.. ? and rather not to a certain set physical mass?
<Hermes`> everyone uses the letters for the same purpose and as such energy gets attached to those letters.
<Hermes`> right exactly
<Hermes`> the problem is that there are many mischievous nonphysical beings that look for people using the Ouija board
<Hermes`> they know the power it holds and can use it as a way to have fun
<Hermes`> the of course, they can tap your energy in such communications sessions
<fooki> what are those beings trying to gain by trying to communicate with people through Ouija board?
<Hermes`> they just like to mess with people.
<fooki> so they are immature?
<Hermes`> I guess you could say they are dark energies
<Hermes`> they are quite mature
<fooki> hmm
<Hermes`> and are aware of what they are doing
<Hermes`> this does not mean every session with a Ouija board will be like this
<Hermes`> it just is not such a great tool to use for self discovery and self evolution
*** Gamble` sets mode: +o jsn
<fooki> okay.. But why do they like to mess around with people? I don't get it.
<fooki> what are they gaining by doing that
<fooki> what's their motive?
<Hermes`> you mean you have never met a person who liked to mess with people's minds
<Hermes`> a person who likes to play jokes and thinks it is funny to see other people suffer
<fooki> of course I have, but in my opinion such persons don't understand why they are acting like they are
<Hermes`> well then
<Hermes`> you have spirits that do the same
<Hermes`> the astral plane is full of all sorts of dark and lower and trapped entities, people etc.
<Hermes`> they feed off strong emotion and feelings
<Hermes`> the Ouija Board makes it easy for these beings to tap into you
<Hermes`> and then all sorts of not nice things can happen
<Hermes`> they can latch on to you and suck your energy
<fooki> so in my opinion they are immature! =)
<Hermes`> okay
<fooki> no matter if they knew or didn't know about what they are doing to the people they are dealing with and why
<fooki> I think we have discussed about this before, but I just don't understand the evilness thing.. I would like to think that "evil" is just misunderstanding..
<fooki> all this talk about dark energies etc..
<fooki> it has so creepy sound in it..
<Hermes`> yea we have talked about it before
<fooki> hey hmm.. Could you be a bit more specific about the spiritual part of falling in love, dating, living together etc.. what happens? I'd be interested.
<fooki> or has that been discussed also before? =D
<fooki> I bet it has
<Hermes`> relationships can be very complex things
<Hermes`> the main factor that brings two people together in a relationship is that each person has the ability to teach the other something, or help that person to reach some goal...
<gnosis> bah
<Hermes`> energy that you need the other one possesses
<Hermes`> so a kind of energy swapping goes on...
<Hermes`> each person taking the energy they need from the other person.
<Gnosis> more importantly, enjoying their presence
<Hermes`> yea that too, but that is just a by product of the energy exchanging
<gnosis> friendships, companionships..these will always exist, whether alive or dead
<Hermes`> yes, but that does not negate the nature of them
<Hermes`> you embark in a relationship to help bring you closer to God
<Hermes`> the other person contains some energy or knowledge that you need to progress.
<Hermes`> one of the things that happens in a relationship is that you become a mirror for the other person..
<fooki> how much does that happen in friendships?
<fooki> or all these things discussed in here.
<Hermes`> it happens in friendships too but not the the same degree.
<fooki> okay
<Hermes`> you see, the amount of emotional energy attached to the relationship determines how deeply you become a mirror for the other person
<Hermes`> you mirror to the other person what they need to work on and visa versa
<Hermes`> quite often relationships will end sooner rather than later because the people involved can not take to look so deeply into their own soul.
<fooki> so "if you really fall in love, you really get in trouble" =DD
<Hermes`> hehe, yea in a sense, the deeper you fall the more of your stuff that you have to work on to progress will come out
<fooki> what kinds of lessens may these be?
<fooki> or what they usually are?
<Hermes`> well that can be anything, for example, and you don' t have to answer this one...
<Hermes`> think to your last relationship at what annoyed you the most in your mate. Then look inside yourself to see where that part of you is.
<Hermes`> your mate was mirroring back to you what you needed to work on within yourself
<Hermes`> had that quality not been there, your mate would not be able to exhibit that trait
<Hermes`> now
<Hermes`> if you fall out of one relationship and into another and do not fix that part of your inner program...
<Hermes`> Then the next mate will eventually exhibit that same trait.
<Hermes`> so to get rid of something you do not like in your mate, you must remove it from yourself.
<fooki> yes
<fooki> hmm
<fooki> well that sort of does figure
<Hermes`> relationships can be very rewarding once you understand this
<Hermes`> because now you know how to make it better, and all you have to do is change yourself.
<fooki> hey? if a person notices a lesson like that, Then learns it properly, would the relationship be "saved" instead of if not learning it, the energies would mess up and probably cause a break up ?
<Hermes`> it could save a failing relationship if it was breaking up because each person could not stand to look into their own soul.
<Hermes`> and that aspect was overwhelming them
<Hermes`> however some relationships burn out because there is no more to teach each other
<fooki> okay.. Seems complex to me..
<Hermes`> yea it is not easy
<Hermes`> look at this later aspect like two magnets
<Hermes`> they will pull toward each other till the energy from each one of them transfers to the other...
<Hermes`> Then there is no more pull to keep them together
<Hermes`> so at this point they may go their own separate ways
<Hermes`> so step one...
<fooki> okay.. Actually a better metaphor would have been two styrox balls in the end of two strings, having opposite electric charges, but the same amount of energy.. =)
<Hermes`> yea
<Hermes`> step one, you and this person have something you can teach each other...
<Hermes`> so you are pulled together and begin a relationship..
<Hermes`> now these things that you have to teach each other are aspects of your own self that you need to work on..
<Hermes`> so step two...
<Hermes`> each of you begin to mirror back to the other these aspects so you can see them very clearly...
<Hermes`> now if you at this point can not stand to look at your inner self so closely, Then the relationship will break....
<Hermes`> or you can choose to work on this aspect, which people do, and Then the relationship can progress.
<Hermes`> this happens all the time unconsciously
<Hermes`> I am just bringing this behavior to the surface here of what happens.
<fooki> yes I got it..
<fooki> many people agree that relationships help people grow more mature
<fooki> very many
<fooki> but that's obvious
<fooki> hmm.. How about when a person is depressed and sort of becomes afraid of sociality what happens Then in spiritual level?
<Hermes`> well you do not need to be in a relationship to evolve, you can do that evolution on your own...
<Hermes`> often people will break from relationships and go inward and examine themselves...
<Hermes`> they Then work on these areas within them...
<Hermes`> when they feel they have worked out enough of them, they may choose to embark on another relationship.
<fooki> yes
<fooki> figures perfectly
<Hermes`> I don't mean to distill relationships down to a non-emotional non gratifying level.
<Hermes`> I'm just tying expose you to the 'why' of relationships.
<fooki> yes I understood
<fooki> did you notice this: how about when a person is depressed and sort of becomes afraid of sociality what happens Then in spiritual level?
<Hermes`> well that person can grow on their own, by examining themself and why they do what they do.
<Hermes`> sometimes it is necessary to take yourself away from society so that you can see yourself more clearly
<Hermes`> that is why many mystical schools are located in isolated places
<Hermes`> depression of course is not a good thing, unless it leads to you being content and happy.
<Hermes`> but often depression can force you to look into yourself more closely
<Hermes`> hopefully however you can get out of the depressed state quickly.
<Hermes`> because depression can trap you.
<Hermes`> it blocks energy into the solar plexus chakra and Then your energy can start leaking out all over
<Hermes`> and this can make you vulnerable to attack by lower astral entities.
<Hermes`> who feed off your depression
<Hermes`> and try to make you feel worse because it makes them feel better.
<Hermes`> but as I said, depression as a pre step to get you to examine yourself can be okay.
<Hermes`> the destructive kind of depression is the kind that goes on for months or years.
<Hermes`> of course you can be away from society and not be depressed
<fooki> hmm yes
<Hermes`> okay time to go
<Hermes`> it was a good chat tonight
*** Disconnected
Session Close: Thu Jun 14 19:02:39 2001